project ride the cheekbone
#121
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Not sure how to embed video in here, but maybe this link will work?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOquyxeA...Rl10WY0/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOquyxeA...Rl10WY0/?hl=en
#122
Not sure how to embed video in here, but maybe this link will work?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOquyxeA...Rl10WY0/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOquyxeA...Rl10WY0/?hl=en
#123
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 460
Total Cats: 15
The gasket advice on the last page made me cringe a little bit.
If the part is embossed RCM (rubber coated metal) you should not add any type of RTV or coating. Inspect the castings for defects large enough to snag your fingernail that the emboss will run across. If there are none, install the gasket as is.
RTV/coatings (like copper coat) make the joint less rigid and "crush out"... which reduces clamp load and make the joint fail quicker. They also spread the clamp load out across the gasket surface instead of concentrating it on the emboss which make the gasket less effective.
On paper parts RTV is probably unnecessary but okay as long as you apply it uniformly. Non-uniform application can concentrate stress, causing the paper to split.
Assuming they're designed/manufactured properly, metal gaskets > paper. If you need proof go look at any OEM gasket that has been designed in the last 10-15 years.
If the part is embossed RCM (rubber coated metal) you should not add any type of RTV or coating. Inspect the castings for defects large enough to snag your fingernail that the emboss will run across. If there are none, install the gasket as is.
RTV/coatings (like copper coat) make the joint less rigid and "crush out"... which reduces clamp load and make the joint fail quicker. They also spread the clamp load out across the gasket surface instead of concentrating it on the emboss which make the gasket less effective.
On paper parts RTV is probably unnecessary but okay as long as you apply it uniformly. Non-uniform application can concentrate stress, causing the paper to split.
Assuming they're designed/manufactured properly, metal gaskets > paper. If you need proof go look at any OEM gasket that has been designed in the last 10-15 years.
Last edited by njn63; 12-31-2016 at 08:20 PM.
#124
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,884
Total Cats: 3,075
RTV on paper will spread like jelly on bread when fresh out of the tube. It will self level when clamping force is applied and is why OEMs use it. It fills minor irregularities in surfaces.
Rubber coated gaskets can seal those irregularities as well. But bare stamped steel gaskets do not do that at all.
Rubber coated gaskets can seal those irregularities as well. But bare stamped steel gaskets do not do that at all.
#125
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 460
Total Cats: 15
1. The gasket is conformable and you need pressure to force the RTV to spread.
2. The only place OEMs use RTV with a gasket are in t joints and sharp radii. There is a reason for that.
3. Joints are not static. Temperature/pressure cause changes in pressure distribution across the joint.
As I said previously, if you're only using a light smear across an entire gasket in a low torque joint you're probably not going to have issues. The failures I typically saw when doing gasket failure analysis were related to people putting a bead around a port and it splitting the paper.
I would be very surprised to see a bare metal gasket used in a coolant application.
#126
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,884
Total Cats: 3,075
Couple problems with that theory:
1. The gasket is conformable and you need pressure to force the RTV to spread.
2. The only place OEMs use RTV with a gasket are in t joints and sharp radii. There is a reason for that.
3. Joints are not static. Temperature/pressure cause changes in pressure distribution across the joint.
As I said previously, if you're only using a light smear across an entire gasket in a low torque joint you're probably not going to have issues. The failures I typically saw when doing gasket failure analysis were related to people putting a bead around a port and it splitting the paper.The only place I have ever seen bare metal used is on exhaust. The theory there is that carbon in the exhaust stream will pack any surface irregularities fairly quickly and self seal leaks.
I would be very surprised to see a bare metal gasket used in a coolant application.
1. The gasket is conformable and you need pressure to force the RTV to spread.
2. The only place OEMs use RTV with a gasket are in t joints and sharp radii. There is a reason for that.
3. Joints are not static. Temperature/pressure cause changes in pressure distribution across the joint.
As I said previously, if you're only using a light smear across an entire gasket in a low torque joint you're probably not going to have issues. The failures I typically saw when doing gasket failure analysis were related to people putting a bead around a port and it splitting the paper.The only place I have ever seen bare metal used is on exhaust. The theory there is that carbon in the exhaust stream will pack any surface irregularities fairly quickly and self seal leaks.
I would be very surprised to see a bare metal gasket used in a coolant application.
I wouldn't use a metal gasket for water without rubber and advised accordingly.
OEM oil pans are often sealed with RTV and no gasket.
#127
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
The weird looking gasket for the water pump was metal in my car.
I beaded some RTV on both sides of the gasket and installed it. It held the gasket in place while it went on. Then we tightened all the bolts and made sure RTV came out around the gasket. We went to go eat and poured in the coolant after that. No leaks. Hoping it stays that way.
So from the video we're thinking timing issue right? Not a cam/cas issue? I guess I can double check those just in case.
I beaded some RTV on both sides of the gasket and installed it. It held the gasket in place while it went on. Then we tightened all the bolts and made sure RTV came out around the gasket. We went to go eat and poured in the coolant after that. No leaks. Hoping it stays that way.
So from the video we're thinking timing issue right? Not a cam/cas issue? I guess I can double check those just in case.
Last edited by ridethecliche; 01-01-2017 at 08:04 PM.
#128
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Dann that engine moves. Can't remember if that is a normal amount of movement with stock style mounts or not since I have moved to AWR mounts. Mine barely torques at all. When my timing was off I usually got the occasional backfire when trying to start. Are you sure you're getting spark?
I think we're going to take the engine and trans out when doing the turbo install so we can do the coolant reroute, tap the pan, and swap out the clutch. I think it'll save time since we'll be able to do those three jobs much faster with the engine out.
I think I'm going to swap to mazdacomp motor mounts as well.
#129
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
So since I'm going to be taking the motor out, anything I should add to the list of things to do? Motor mounts? Mazda speed ones? I want to keep noise reasonable so the race oriented ones are out. It would be nice not to miss shifts though. Thinking of getting a shifter rebuild kit too.
Recs appreciated!
Recs appreciated!
Last edited by ridethecliche; 01-17-2017 at 10:16 PM.
#131
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
SUCCESSSSSSS!!!
Going to put a few miles on the car and make sure things are running well, then it's going to be time to do megasquirt things!
Any guesses as to why it didn't work last time?
Going to put a few miles on the car and make sure things are running well, then it's going to be time to do megasquirt things!
Any guesses as to why it didn't work last time?
#133
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Koyo radiator is pretty ridiculous. With highway driving last night (air temps in 40's) I was barely above the 'C' on the coolant temp gauge. I turned the AC on a few times to see if it would do anything and the needle barely budged. This is with no undertray.
Gonna be pretty awesome for when things are all bewsty like.
Gonna be pretty awesome for when things are all bewsty like.
#135
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
I'm looking forward to monitoring coolant temp when I get the MS3X installed soon (hopefully this weekend!). I want to spend atleast 2-3 months with the car on MS3X while in NA trim so I can learn to tune a bit and get the injectors and fuel pump installed. I think there are a few dyno's nearby too. I might take the car to them as it currently sits to get a baseline for how the car was running NA and then take it back again before the turbo install to see what I managed to get out of it with the MS3X. Unfortunately the cost isn't insignificant for what was supposed to be a budget build, but I think there's utility in having actual data. My goal was to reach 2x-ish stock power and if nothing else, having data will help me rationalize dialing back the boost till I build the engine up with atleast rods. Given how insane school is going to be for the next year and a half (or 2), I doubt this is going to happen for a good long while, unless my big winter project this winter is to just learn how to put rods in. Then I can buy a 6-speed and live happily ever after*.
*If only things played out like they do in daydreams...
And lulz, I got a neg-cat for my newby comment on your thread. Womp.
#137
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Temp climbs up normally if it's driven at county road speed. When I got off the exit, it climbed about a quarter of the way up. It's working. It's just running pretty damn cool.
#139
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
If it was stuck, I'd expect it to not move at all, no? I guess I'll find out exactly what's going on when I get the megasquirt in since I'll be able to pull the coolant temp. Don't have the obd reader yet and don't see the point of ordering one for a week's use!
I've never seen the needle climb to exactly half since the new radiator install. If the needle is moving, it's not a clogged/bum thermometer, right?
#140
Running a rich mixture for longer periods of time is bad for your engine. Find someone with a 2$ obd reader and diagnose the problem.
Problem solving is much easier with a stock ecu. Standalones have so many variables in the tune it is especially hard to diagnose in the first steps of a new project.
Problem solving is much easier with a stock ecu. Standalones have so many variables in the tune it is especially hard to diagnose in the first steps of a new project.