SimBa

Looks good man, excited to see what happens when the low hanging fruit is out of the way! Headed in a good direction.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Nice work! Really enjoying watching this build come together, keep those updates rolling. Excited to hear track impressions compared to your NA, and looking forward to stories of this:

Z_WAAAAAZ

Thanks dudes! Yeah, lots of exposition to work through still, but she's getting there. Still waiting on MadFabWorx to ship my oil filter housing so I can add an oil cooler, then it's off to the track once I get that sorted. I've heard and seen bad things happen to MZR/Duratec motors getting worked on track without an oil cooler, even N/A. Even GoodWin Racing says they won't track any NCs without an oil cooler, so I'm taking what they say as Gospel.

Actually on the coattails of that, I might sign up to rip around in HPDE at WSIR with NASA at the end of next month. Got an email yesterday offering to have me step in as a junior instructor for the GR Corolla run group at their next event.



Based on the fact that they're looking for skilled drivers, they must be contacting the wrong Z_WAAAAAZ. Nonetheless, two track days for the price of one is a pretty good offer, and NASA events usually have lots of down time between run groups anyways. If I go, I might have plenty of time to tinker with my car between sessions even if I'm going out a few times as a passenger.

Roda

I would jump on that opportunity with both feet.

As a long time instructor of several things not car related, teaching can not only be very rewarding in itself, but you'll be amazed how much you learn in the process. One of my retirement goals is to become an HPDE instructor... just haven't had time to get after it yet.

OptionXIII

That's awesome! I'd like to try my hand at instructing but I've barely been instructed myself, maybe three times total. I haven't even had someone ride along in my car probably in 5 years.

There's zero motivation to get half priced track time, no, definitely not.

Z_WAAAAAZ

Well I was on the fence (not sure why to be honest) but after hearing your guys' responses, I'm definitely going to pounce on it. Looks like the NC's first track rip will be in a month!

I remember an old professor of mine telling us something similar. You know you've mastered something when you can teach it effectively. I'm no absolute master, but I imagine I'll learn a ton even just by reiterating the basics to a novice. I think you're right, it should be a fun and enriching experience!
Pursuing an instructing position sounds like it would be a great option in retirement. All of our NASA instructors out here are retired dudes and they're absolutely great. Nothing to say of the hefty track day discounts either haha.

Same here, I've only had an instructor ride along with me once, and his main feedback was amazement my turbo Miata wasn't overheating after ten full-bore laps at Chuckwalla . I did a little "instructing" at my buddy's track day riding along with some friends, but mostly just covered safety stuff and general track/passing etiquette. The email does go on to say that there will be a 45-minute Zoom meeting for all junior instructors a couple weeks before the event to cover essential teaching points, so I'm sure that structure will help us out a bit. It also states that the opportunity would count towards the experience requirements to become a full-fledged NASA HPDE instructor. I'm in no way experienced enough to be a true instructor, but that would be a cool goal to accomplish one day...

Gee Emm

Chiming into say 'do it'. One thing it does is focus you in on getting the basics right, always a good thing! It is also a good way to encourage greater participation in motorsport, car culture (here at least) is moving in different directions. And you get a healthy discount!!!

The club track days our club runs has this system in place for the 'first-timers' - three laps by an experienced driver demonstrating, then three laps sitting beside the newb, newbs don't get times for their first solo session to allow them to practice with little pressure and they are then monitored by the 'instructor' and senior race officials for bad behaviour, over-driving etc. The newbs may come with non-newb friends (often not), but having 'quality time' with an experienced hand generally facilitates their enjoyment and overall engagement with the club.

Sadly we don't get any reward, beyond that warm feeling!

Z_WAAAAAZ

Hey, a warm feeling (and saving a couple hundred dollars) is perfectly good for me!

I agree with encouragement towards first timers being very important. For the last year or so here it seems amateur motorsport participation is on the up. Although a couple years ago I was seeing plenty of organizations shoot out messages with last-minute deals to fill up their track days. Haven't received one of those messages in a while now.
Our organizations do something that sounds similar to yours. Typically, the novice class has to go out for their first session or two following an instructor at about half speed. On the second session, they do a sort of peloton thing on the straights, with the lead vehicle pointing by the rest of the pack to get everyone comfortable with passing etiquette. I remember my first track day a couple and a half years ago and those first couple sessions helped calm my nerves drastically (but not fully lol). Regardless, definitely agree with ya, guidance on the first track day seems to greatly improve the odds of a novice attending a second track day.

I'm gonna sign up and will update you guys on how it goes!

SimBa

Yeah man, take that opportunity, I think a lot of us would kill for an opportunity like that. Congrats!

Z_WAAAAAZ

Thanks man! Yeah, I'm going to pull the trigger next week. Would probably be bummed if I let that opportunity slip by.

Got some more done this week. Finished up removing the power steering lines, installed the solid steering rack mounts, started the Mazda Motorsports rear hub installation, and got a little bonus mod in as well..

For starters, the engine bay and radiator outlet are looking nice and open with the PS removed and all the TDR relocation brackets installed!
I need to do something about the mounting on that power cable though.



I was not expecting the solid rack mounts to make such a substantial difference in the steering feel. These little things made a more noticeable difference in steering response and directness than welding the pinion in my old steering rack. There's definitely an increase in feedback through the steering wheel when driving over bumps, but it's not anything I would consider true NVH. I still plan to do a proper depower in this rack and get the pinion welded but I'm currently very happy with the feel and not in a rush to do anything else.



Well, work was slow-ish yesterday afternoon and I couldn't leave well enough alone. I've been doing more research on fender vents for the NC. There are almost no options available, which is understandable since the NC fenders are pretty multidimensional with their own built-in flares. A couple guys run Left Lane NB fender vents from FlyinMiata on their NCs, which sit aft of the front wheels. I was considering those for a bit, but armed with too much time yesterday, decided to just chop 'em instead. I went with a straight cut this time, as opposed to curved like my last ones, and am pretty stoked on how it came out. I also made a couple ABS plastic shanks to seal up the gap between the lower portion of the fender and the side skirt, but am thinking I might cut the side skirt flush with the fender in the future, and make a little ABS cover for that as well.



Oh, and I washed the damn thing today too.



Today's goal was to finish up the second fender cut and pop both of the upgraded Mazda Motorsports rear hubs in.



I was expecting to douse all of the wheel knuckle mounting points in screwloose and fight them for at least thirty minutes before getting the knuckle to budge. Somehow, they all popped right off without a fight. Pleasant surprise!



MM hub on the left. Bigger hub barrel, thicker and more supported flange, shinier, etc.

Unfortunately, I forgot to support the backside of the bearing while I was installing the first hub and wound up nuking the thing. Rookie maneuver. Being down a bearing, I was able to install the right hub but will have to wait until next weekend when I have a replacement bearing to install the left one. Oh well. Next focus is getting some miles in on this thing over the weekend. Onward!

Z_WAAAAAZ

Driving mission accomplished this weekend. Got some mountain runs in yesterday afternoon and this morning. I almost never beat on the car two days in a row, but I felt like I was behind after being out of town the last two weekends. Had a ton of fun, no regrets there, and have a list of notes and to-do's for the coming weeks as well.

-The NC steering with PS deleted is noticeably heavier than the NA's. It's not too much to handle, and isn't impacting my driving, but it requires more effort than my last car. Hopefully it won't become too much when I put 2" wider wheels and stickier tires on it.

-The solid steering rack mounts are kick ***. Probably one of the first upgrades I'd do on this car if I did it again. The steering on this thing feels so precise after installing them. More so than my NA with all poly bushings and a welded steering rack pinion. I don't feel a need to weld the pinion in the rack this time around.

-The brake bias feels a bit too frontward. Not sure if this is in my head but the front brakes feel pretty easy to lock up. This might be partially due to pad choice, since I'm running BP10s up front and unknown pads in the rear. I'll probably grab some GLoc R8s front and rear for track use and experiment from there. This leads me to my next quip.

-I can feel the ABS engaging while braking over uneven surfaces and bumps, but I can lock up the front wheels without ABS engaging. This doesn't seem like normal behavior? I'll have to add that to my research list, being that I've only tracked my NA before, a non-ABS car.

-The Tein coilovers are no longer too soft after a couple damping adjustments (wow, who would've guessed?). I stiffened the dampers up from 17/30 to 22/30 up front and 14/30 to 19/30 in the rear and they were instantly no longer planted on the bumpy road I was driving on Sunday. Backed them off by two clicks each and the car was sufficiently planted but still notably stiffer than before. Guess each click on these makes a pretty substantial difference.

-I had a battery light come twice on after a couple extended stints above 5k rpm today. Checked for codes via the head unit and came up with a P2503 for low charging voltage. On the way home, I pulled up the voltage PID at the ECU and checked it in comparison to RPM while on the freeway. Charging voltage is pretty steady at 13.5-13.6v up to 4,500rpm, then gradually drops to 12.8v as the engine approaches redline. I'm pretty sure the culprit is the battery ground setup outlined in one of my above posts. I'm going to remove the kill switch from the ground circuit since I'll likely never use it and route the chassis and engine grounds directly to the battery. Currently the chassis ground connects to the engine ground, and then the engine ground goes to the kill switch and then to an 8 gauge cable for the battery. This is per TDR's instructions with the battery relocation but just doesn't seem right to me. All the cables including the one from the kill switch to battery ground are 8 gauge. Seems too small for the application.

Otherwise, no issues with the car. I signed up for that NASA event at WSIR on the 28/29th this month so the car will get its first proper shakedown pretty soon!

SimBa

Wait, Zak actually getting out on track? What year is it?!

Car's coming along well. Digging the fender cuts as well.

Maybe I missed it, but what brand of battery did you end up grabbing? I've had the NOCO's in mind for a while but haven't found a ton of info on people running them in cars.

Z_WAAAAAZ

Sh*t dude, seriously. I almost forgot that I basically bought this car to get back on track quicker lol.

Thanks dude. There's still a lot of work to be done but she's getting closer to being ready for the more exciting stuff.

I've got an AntiGravity ATX-12-HD battery in it right now. If you asked AntiGrav, it's too small for the application, but it starts the car just fine and I haven't had any issue after running it for a month. The same battery started my NA no problem on a 30* morning at the track so I figure it's got enough juice for the task. If fixing the grounding situation doesn't alleviate the charging symptom at high RPM, I may look into an ATX-20. It's also not impossible that my alternator is old and tired, but I really think the battery ground is a substantial bottleneck at the moment.

I also sold the BMW transmission from my NA yesterday and just ordered the GoodWin Racing catted Helmholtz midpipe from Fab9, and a RoadsterSport header from a user on FB marketplace. Didn't see the reasoning in buying a new header since this car will likely have a turbo installed in the next 6 or so months. If both components arrive in time, I might get the exhaust installed this weekend.

OptionXIII

Great progress and speed as usual! Good to hear you jumped on that instructor opportunity.

When I saw your comment about getting 7420 sized R8 pads on the shelf I was about to offer you the set I have on the shelf... until I tried to find replacements for the Stoptech Sport 309 pads I installed instead. They're no longer available. I always keep spare pads on hand, especially so now that the BBK means I basically have to go through boutique suppliers to get replacement pads instead of, say, Tire Rack or Amazon.

Hopefully you find the R8s nice and somewhat streetable, for track pads. I know my buddy had some pretty insane squeal running 7420 shape R10s on the street, at least until the first track day put some real heat into them.

SimBa

What's the limiting factor when turboing an NC? Obviously it's the trans for the NA/NB, but I have no idea about high HP NCs. Thinking you'll go for a similar power goal as your NA, or keep it a bit tamer to avoid some of the high HP headaches?

Z_WAAAAAZ

Thanks man! My impatience gets the best of me yet again lol.

Damn, I would've absolutely jumped on those R8 pads from you if they were an option. You're totally right about having spares since they're "boutique" pads. I can normally get them same day from 949 Racing since they're just down the road from me, but know that I shouldn't rely on that entirely. I had two sets of front and rear pads for my last car and will likely do that again to avoid a potentially track-day ending situation.

I think I'll be fine with R8s on the street for a day or two between track events. I've always been good about swapping my street pads back in between events, though. My NA had R12s front and R10s rear for track pads and those were pretty rough to drive on the street. So loud and so grabby if they weren't up to temp. I later swapped to R10s up front (which were not enough for track use at 270whp) and they were just borderline acceptable for street driving.

Well, I've been doing countless hours of research on this for the last five weeks and the short answer is... it kinda depends? There's not as much of a defined answer compared to NA/NBs but here's the general details.

NC1s got the non-forged internal 2.0L. NC2s got a forged crank and rods (but not pistons). General consensus seems to be that NC1 motors are good up to ~240whp and NC2s are good into the low-300s, which is where piston failures begin to happen. Some people talk about stock ring gap being a limiting factor as well, and that higher power can be achieved with a higher success rate by keeping air charge temps cooler, running e85, or simply gapping the stock rings wider. 2.5 swaps seem to have a similar ceiling to the NC2 2.0s. Supporting up to around 300whp reliably but killing themselves quicker as redline increases regardless of forced induction or now (6,800 seems to be the limit before they start to deteriorate quickly).

Transmission ratings seem to be very similar to NA/NBs. Most folks will say the 5 speeds are good up to around 250whp, although I'm following a couple turbo 2.5 guys on Facebook running 300+ whp through their 5 speeds on street cars. I'm sure of course that type of use and torque curves play a role in this as well. 6 speeds are supposed to be more robust but the NC1 6 speed is known to wear quicker and take less power than the NC2 6 speed (I think 3rd and 4th gear were the weak link and got revised in the NC2?). Mazda Motorsports also sells a gearset for the 6 speed which is supposed to add robustness and longevity to the transmission for high horsepower/competition use, but I don't have a number figure for how much horsepower it can reliably support.

Long story short, there's fewer guys running boosted NCs, so not as much hard data on power limits. My current plan is to turbo the current motor while readying a 2.5 (with cams) to swap in. I spoke to a bunch of guys on the turbo NC FB groups and Bryan at Fab9 and it seems like the low-mount EFR kit is the move for track use. Everyone tracking one of the high-mount Garrett kits says that the turbo melts everything in the vicinity, even with proper heat shielding. I'll probably go with a low-mount EFR6258 and see what the minimum boost pressure I can run with that setup is. For now, on the stock motor, I'd be stoked to have it making 210-220whp. Later on with a late 6 speed and 2.5, I'd like to get into the high-200whp range, but won't take it beyond that. Don't want to get out of stock drivetrain reliability range and go down the rabbit hole like I did with my last car haha.

Roda

A good option with the GLoc pads is to get a set of GS1 to swap in for the street. I run R12/R10 on our NA for the track, and I don't drive it much on the street, but the GS1s work pretty well when I do take it to a C&C or car show. Not sure if the GS1s are up to canyon driving, but they should be.

SimBa

That makes sense. Kinda where I'm at with my car as well. I think the 6 speed is going to be the limiting factor for me, so eventually I'll probably shoot for ~350 WHP and hope I can tune it to not blow 6 speeds. Seems like they're a bit of a dice roll, but I figure it's the easy button until I decide that aftermarket drivetrain components are a good option. Maybe someone will come up with a new transmission option by then.

OptionXIII

The Stoptech Sports were just such a good value for me and for a true dual duty car. $70ish for stock sizes, $100 for 7420 size, and with me driving could hold up to a stock power NB2 on 200tw on track worn all the way down to the backing plate. I'll miss them.

True track pads are expensive in comparison, plus the need for another set of street pads (and possibly rotors).

Z_WAAAAAZ

I had GS1 street pads in my last car! Great pad and I think I'll get another set when I wear these current pads out for the street. I tracked them once at 210whp (last minute event that I wasn't prepared for) and they took about 3 laps to fade on me, which I don't think was too horrible. Never got 'em hot enough in the canyons to fade or start producing any smell. Pretty solid for some standard street pads!

Yeah, if I were to do it again (wait, I am doing it again), I'd keep it in that power range for a while. Cost and time allotment goes through the roof to get to that next rung up on the ladder haha.

Never even considered those pads. Damn, that's a bargain. I got away with EBC yellowstuff pads (which I believe to be similar in heat capacity) on track when my NA was naturally aspirated still. I'm curious if the NC brakes will fare similarly at stock power but don't want to risk a set of undergunned pads partially ruining my first track weekend haha.