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Also ordered and installed this set of Phase 2 Motorsports tie rod ends this week to tune out bump steer. I didn't feel any bump steer too bad while driving the canyons Sunday I knew the car was low and the tie rods were already level with the ground when the car was lifted in the air. Plus they were under $100 and the company is based 30 minutes from where I live. They come with a 5 and 10mm spacer to lower the tie rod end depending on how low your car is. Mine's currently on the very low side so I installed both spacers on top. Didn't take any photos of the tie rod angle after the install but they're much more level with the car sitting on the ground now.
Common misconception, but tie rod angle usually has nothing to do with bump steer. If you have a laser alignment machine at work, set your front to desired toe, then raise the car with a jack a set amount, I usually do 1", and look at toe again. You want zero change. I've seen a lot of steering rack spacers and adjustable tie rods that induces horrendous bump steer. 9/10 times if you have OE control arms, OE tie rods are your best bet.
Not all OE configurations got it right, and to be honest I haven't checked R vs. non-R tie rods. Simply pointing out that adjusting a bump steer kit until they're level isn't the right way to do it. Bump steer also needs to be readjusted after camber adjustment too, it's one of the last things to be adjust doing a setup.
Huh, interesting. I will admit that I noticed almost no difference after installing steering rack spacers on my NA, but figured I'm probably just not perceptive enough to pick up on the change.
Our alignment machine has front and rear jacks built in. I'll do a raise/lower test like you said next time the car is on it and record the results. Never considered the LCAs as a factor. I just figured if the tie rods were already pointing upwards at sag height, they'd pull inward during compression, increasing toe in.
More fun this weekend! Got the RX8 front hubs installed yesterday, swapped out the aluminum extended lugs for some steel ones because I don't want to die, and got some more mountain driving in today!
The RX8 hub swap went off without a hitch yesterday. The hubs weren't super stuck in the knuckles so I got lucky there. Haven't used a slide hammer in a while so that was fun. The knurl in my ARP studs is too big for the hubs so I ordered up the correct ones and will install them at a later date.
I pulled the rotor shields off while I was in there because the car will be getting bigger front rotors here soon.
You can guess the new from old. The barrel of the RX8 hub is notably larger and the flange is a little thicker and more supported towards the ID.
The car continues to drive well. I'm getting more comfortable with it and don't think that understeer is going to be an issue at all. The car is happy to let the tail a little loose when given the right inputs. The chassis is still wowing me with how responsive it is. I'm happy with the current balance but it no doubt needs stiffer springs. The car simultaneously feels a little too squishy but also doesn't want to hang onto the road when hitting bumps. I haven't played with the clickers yet but I don't think damping alone is going to get the setup where I want it to be. Gonna call Tein this week and ask what the stiffest springs are that these dampers can handle. Aside from that, I didn't really change anything setup-wise from last week aside from the P2M tie rod ends. I think I was actually able to perceive a decrease in bump steer today, but that might've just been placebo effect. Aside from the softness, which is a mild complaint, I'm very pleased with how it handles mountain driving.
I'm going to be out of town the next two weekends so that might slow down build progress a bit. My pops and I are headed up to Laguna Seca next weekend to watch a vintage race, then a buddy and I are headed up to Tahoe for a long weekend of bike riding. Last week I ordered the belt and both pulleys to delete the power steering and AC, then I'm still currently waiting on the ARP wheel studs and TDR airflow kit. Thinking I'll order some poly motor mounts from GoodWin this week, along with the Keisler Automation BBK.
I asked around about tuning with ECUtek myself. What I found out is that in order to unlock FlexFuel tuning and closed loop boost control, one needs to purchase the "Suite" version of the software, for an additional $1,800 on top of the $500+ "Pro" version. Licensed ECUtek tuners already have this so they can set your car up with any and all features no matter what version of the software you have. I suppose if I'm running 91 octane with a supercharger or turbo on wastegate only, that's ok, but I'd like to have flex available to give this thing a little more power while it's still naturally aspirated. Plus, what the hell, of course I want closed loop boost control if I go turbo.
I'm going to talk to Delicious Tuning about procuring everything to get my car set up for tuning with ECUtek, along with their FlexFuel kit. They're located only an hour away from me, have their own dyno to tune on, and tune a lot of NCs. Most of the tunes on these cars are done via an off-the-shelf file, then subsequent revisions via datalogs. I'm sure this works fine but I'd prefer to have this thing tuned live on a dyno instead.
Got a little more done tonight. Installed ARP extended studs in the front hubs. I'm gonna wait until upgrading the rear hubs to pop the ARPs in the rear. I ordered the Keisler Automation Wilwood Superlite brake kit as well. $670 shipped for the calipers, brackets and lines, $90 shipped for a pair of Centric RX8 sport rotors, $95 shipped for a cheap set of BP10 brake pads (I'll order track pads once it cools down a bit over here). $855 all in on a BBK with big ol' Superlite calipers and 12.7" rotors. Stock rotors are 11.5". Keisler claims the kit produces a 9% increase in front braking force and will play nice with the stock rear calipers. We'll see how it works.
Buncha parts showed up today. Got the ARP wheel studs, the final pulley needed to remove the power steering and AC, brake rotors and pads. The rest of the brake kit is showing up on Monday. I'll probably take the car into work on the last Saturday of the month and tear down the rack to do a proper depower. AC is still gonna stay in the car until the end of Summer.
More NC updates coming soon. In the meantime, enjoy some shots from the vintage races at the Monterey Motorsports Reunion in Laguna Seca this weekend. Every car pictured aside from the McLaren saw wheel to wheel race time on track Saturday. Most of the cars were driven in anger as well. Awesome to watch. Too many cool cars to photograph.
Peak Mclaren, that thing is so sick. Also love a good nascar, I never thought I would until I looked over one at a local collection, it was a 90's nascar and I loved it. Looks like a vintage skyline in 2nd to last pic?
Thought you and some of the other guys would enjoy the pics. I didn’t take anywhere near enough. You said it best. The pits were ****, then the car show outside the pits was also ****, then even the damn parking lot was more ****.
Yeah, had to photograph the F1. Just such an iconic piece of machinery. That one was in the pits but I didn’t see it get on track, might’ve just missed it. The nascar (or maybe it was an old IMSA class car?) was killer as well. That class had 25+ cars in it. And yes, that’s an old skyline as well. It was running in one of the IMSA classes and was holding its own amongst Porsche 935s (as shown in the picture), big aero C3 corvettes, and plenty of other very fast cars. Cool to see.
Damn the pics of my NC and recent projects tomorrow are gonna be underwhelming now.
Most of the racing from Monterey 2024 is available on youtube, I've been watching it on/off over the weekend. Great stuff! I really need to go back in person one of these days. I think the last time I was there was 1989...
Most of the racing from Monterey 2024 is available on youtube, I've been watching it on/off over the weekend. Great stuff! I really need to go back in person one of these days. I think the last time I was there was 1989...
Didn't realize they televised it! Would've saved my pops and I a seven hour drive lol. For real, really great stuff. The drive from where you guys live is a haul for sure, but with the festival being two weeks long I'm sure it'd be worth it one of these years!
Originally Posted by douginjenison
Nice YJ. I loved having the exact opposite suspension experience I had MT baja boss E range 35's , Lordy.
Haha, it's my roomie's but thank you nonetheless. 35" MTs are nuts haha. So much road noise, but they sure look cool! His is on 33 ATs, slightly more reasonable. I move the thing out of the garage from time to time and the turning radius makes me laugh. Thing'll practically turn circles inside of itself.
Ok back to our regularly-scheduled boring naturally-aspirated programming.
AWR motor mounts and Keisler BBK are on the car now. Completely forgot I ordered the motor mounts last week and was pleasantly surprised when they showed up on Thursday. Got those on pretty quick and without issue. I just went with AWR's 70a mounts. They vibrate a little more at idle, a decent bit more when launching from a stop, and almost no more at all above 2,000 rpm. Drivetrain lash wasn't a big issue before, but I'm still stoked on the lessened shifter movement. Will likely leave the stock diff bushings in unless shifter movement proves to be an issue on track.
Also of note, turbos and aftermarket headers apparently run very close to the passenger side engine mount, so I'll work on making a little heat shield for it when I get some time. I've seen a couple photos of guys who partially melted their engine mounts after prolonged track use.
Don't worry, I tightened the lower nut after taking this picture.
Got the brake calipers/adapters/lines in the mail yesterday from Keisler Automation and installed them last night. 12.7" RX8 sport rotors up front compared to the stock 11.5" ones. The Centric RX8 rotors are cheap enough that I oughtta grab a couple spares just to have them. Keisler claims the kit results in only a 9% increase in front braking force over stock, keeping the bias from getting too out of whack. From what I've read, the NC's brake bias is surprisingly somewhat rearward from the factory, relying on ABS to even things out during hard braking events. This sounds backwards to me and I can't be sure how true those claims are. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in. Anyways, what I'm getting at is that I'm prepared to play with rear pad options if the current brake bias proves to be too far frontward.
Also of note, Keisler states that the brake kit is not compatible with most 8" wheels. Even some 9" wheels require spacers for the calipers to clear. Luckily, these 17x8 PF01s have tons of room for big brakes due to their flared out spokes. I don't personally think they're the prettiest wheels, but I do appreciate that feature.
Going out of town again on Thursday. Next update might be next week. The battery/ecu/power steering reservoir relocation brackets and cold air intake from TDR shipped on Friday but I don't know if I'll receive them this week or have time to install everything. Thinking once I get that installed, I'll throw in some stiffer springs next, then get the Good-Win Racing midpipe as it'll play nice with whatever headers or turbo downpipe I decide to go with down the road. I'm gonna get a tune for the car, as I have to get this thing set up with ECUtek anyways and around 15whp can be unlocked on the stock powertrain with a tune alone. I'm going to wait on swapping to aftermarket headers, though, as I'm still not fully decided on the power-adder upgrade path I'm going to go down.
I'd be surprised if the NC was actually too rearward biased with the kind of grip true street tires can generate. OEMs are almost always going to take the failsafe route, and front lockup is definitely safer than rear. But, like he says, more grip overall drives more weight transfer drives a need for more front braking.
I assume Keisler is using the caliper with 1.1" rotor thickness and 3.00" of piston area? Pretty sure that's what the Supermiata 11.75 kit is based on. Neat to see, this is very similar to what I designed for my friend with an RSX, but we used 350Z rotors.
Yeah, I thought the same thing as far as OEM bias. You undoubtedly don't want an end consumer locking up the rear brakes on the street lol. Maybe the data I've read is in regards to the NC just having more of a rearward bias compared to other similar vehicles, not actually being biased toward the rear. The couple times I've felt ABS engage in this car, it did feel like the front brakes were being actuated. Really, though, I won't know what's going on until I get the car on track. I'm only willing to drive so hard in the canyons.
Worth noting obviously is that the car's still on 235 width 300TW tires. While these aren't super-duper grippy, they're generating substantially more grip (and weight transfer) than what the car left the factory with.
I don't have the car with me currently but a quick search shows the RX8 sport rotors are 0.945" thickness. Being that said thickness is in between the Wilwood 1.1" and 0.81" caliper options, I don't know which calipers they're using... I'll check the part number on the box when I get home.
I didn't get a chance to road test it last night, the sun was going down and nobody was around so I ended up gravity bleeding the brakes, which took a while. The pedal feels to be about the same firmness as it did with the OEM calipers, I'll have to get some driving in to confirm anything else.
Checked the part numbers on the calipers included with the kit. Here's what I'm currently running. 4.12" piston area, not the 3". I don't know the piston area of the stock calipers.
The brake pedal feels marginally firmer than it did previously, but that might just be due to the fresh fluid. The stuff that came out wasn't too dark, but I don't know how old it was.
Solid long weekend. There are some car-related bits at the end of this post, I swear.
Headed up to Mammoth with a buddy on Thursday night for a bike/camping trip. There was a freak cold front running through the Sierra Nevadas and it was cold as sh*t for this time of year, but we had a ton of fun. Did chairlift laps at Mammoth most of Friday then signed up for a race that was being held on one of my favorite trails up there. My buddy and I expected to podium easily but I got smoked. I put down a 2:17, getting me 19th of 70 racers total (open class), but was over seven seconds off the podium, and fourteen seconds off of first place. Still a good time but a humbling experience lol. I haven't raced bikes seriously in years and will probably continue to get my competitive kicks from racing cars.
Camp/tow rig all set up in Mammoth at 1:40am Friday morning.
Saturday morning we got up at 5:30am and drove up to Lake Tahoe to get some laps in at Northstar mountain resort. It was cold again and raining on and off, which kept the dust levels low on the trails, and was very enjoyable. We rode until around 3 when the lifts stopped spinning due to a lightning hold, then drove a little east to ride another trail in the area. We got up to about 8,000 feet and just started getting dumped on with snow. F*cking crazy for August but a super cool experience.
This was after about twenty minutes of snow. It came down pretty hard. I do not expect to get snowed on in late August probably ever again.
We grabbed dinner in Tahoe after then headed back down to Mammoth for the night. Woke up yesterday morning, did a little pedal ride in Mammoth then headed home just before noon. Got back before the sun went down so I figured I'd knock a little work out on the car.
I wouldn't mind having that property on the left some day.
Ok back to car stuff. I got a lot of things in the mail over the weekend with more on the way this week. My TrackDogRacing kit with the ECU, battery, and washer reservoir relocation showed up, as well as the cold air intake that doesn't use up half of the space in the engine bay. Mazda Motorsports beefed up rear hubs and bearings showed up. Accessory belt that *should* be the correct length for power steering delete with A/C still present showed up. I also bought a passenger seat bracket on FB marketplace so I can bolt in my Sparco Sprint seat and drop a little more weight.
Needless to say, I'm going to have plenty to do this week. I'm thinking I'll try to get all the TDR relocation stuff done, pull the power steering pump and loop the lines (and grab the correct length belt if the one I currently have doesn't fit) this week. Saturday, I'm going to take the car to work and swap the hubs, then pull the steering rack apart and cut out the main seal. I also ordered a set of solid steering rack mounts from V8R, so I'll pop those in if they arrive in time.
Last night, I got home with an hour and a half of daylight to spare, so I figured I'd pull the airbox and do the ECU relocation to get a head start on this week's work. Here's the car when I started on it.
And here's the car an hour later.
The ECU on these things is situated on a crossmember behind the radiator outlet, under the factory airbox. The relocation kit moves it higher and further to the driver side, resting vertically next to the fuse box. I didn't check closely and assumed I could move the ECU to its new home with the stock airbox in place. This was not the case. The relocated ECU uses some of the room freed up by replacing the stock airbox with a cold air intake. The CAI needs to be installed for the ECU to fit, the front bumper needs to be removed to pull out the factory intake snorkel, and I need to get better about making assumptions. Long story short, I got the ECU relocation and CAI installed last night, and plan to get the battery relocation done in the next couple days. The washer bottle and pump are going to be removed from the car, because racecar (and the jets are partially clogged and already don't work so well).
Side note, most CAIs for the NC require the front bumper to be removed for air filter servicing. After intstall, the TDR filter can be removed without removal of the front bumper, so that's cool.
More progress yesterday. Got the battery relocation done during my lunch break and pulled the power steering pump off last night but still have the lines in place. Against all odds, the belt length I guessed on and ordered was a perfect fit (f*ck yeah).
Radiator exit's pretty unobstructed now! One of the first things I noticed is that I can now see heat radiating out of the hood vents at stoplights.
Oh, I also swapped in that aluminium Moroso coolant tank and new cap.
Marvel at the beauty of my homemade cardboard shims. The TDR battery is obviously a little taller and the supplied J mounts aren't threaded low enough to clamp my AntiGrav battery. I'll grab some shorter ones this week.
The TDR battery relocation kit and kill switch install was pretty straightforward, but the directions kinda threw me for a loop on the ground cable situation. The kit comes with three cables. There's two short ones shown here going from the kill switch to the engine ground, and from the engine ground to chassis ground. Then there's a third ~20" long cable that the instructions state is supposed to go from the ground post to the kill switch. That distance is only a few inches, though. I ended up chopping the factory ground cable, crimping a new terminal on it and using that instead. The current situation seems to be working fine, but I may hog out the chassis ground cable terminal that's currently bolted to the engine ground, and run that directly to the kill switch instead of making it run inline with the engine ground. Just seems right.
Also, I had to bend the AC line a decent bit out of the way to get the battery to fit, I then wrapped it in convolute because it's still sitting directly above the battery terminals.
Last night my plan was to install the PS delete pulley and see if the belt I ordered was too long or too short so I could figure out the correct size. Low and behold, the belt I got was a perfect fit. I don't get lucky like this often so I'll take it where I can get it! Notice the shimming of the upper bolt holding the pulley on. I'll bring home some correct length bolts and fix that tonight. Still gotta remove the PS lines too and loop them at the rack so I can drive the thing around worry-free until Saturday.
Don't be completely fooled, the destinations from this weekend were 6 and 9 hours away respectively haha. But yeah, even our local mountain ranges aren't a slouch. I'm very grateful for it.
I wish I could tell you that was my plan but unfortunately I already removed the pump lol. I do have all the lines still in place, though, and will be driving the car to work like that tomorrow until I can get it in a lift and fully remove them.
08-10-2024, 11:58 AM
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I had MT baja boss E range 35's , Lordy.
