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Wow dude, you move quick. Super excited to see where this goes and how it fairs on the track. Given all my current issues with my NA, it has me thinking hard about whether to just part out this winter and move onto something else that can handle the power and still be reliable on track
Haha, thanks man. Means a lot coming from the guy who has the engine pull down to an hour and change with a buddy! I know I should be enjoying the process, and I am, but I'm really just excited to get past the exposition and have a ripper of a car again. I can't wait to see how it stacks up against the NA once I get it out on track. Gonna be a couple months though, I have no interest in going out to the high desert for a track day while its still 100-110* out.
****, though, I really don't want this thread to persuade anyone away from their NA/NB builds. We have so many killer cars on here.
That being said, I put my part out ad up at the beginning of last week and about 60% of my car is already gone/sold, with more guys coming to pick up parts this weekend. Did not expect all the parts to go that fast.
Intended purposes were served this weekend! Got another one of the vents installed yesterday, popped some dents out of the passenger door, plumbed in the the oil pressure and temperature sensors and started the gauge wiring, and met some buddies for a little canyon rip in the heat today!
I got pretty lucky with my spitballed ride height and alignment adjustments, the car rips and is balanced pretty neutral. Any oversteer comes on super predictably and the car is generally pretty mild-mannered without getting into front end plow-territory. Obviously I'm not flogging it 110% in the canyons and it's gonna behave a bit different on track, but I think we have a good starting point moving forward.
The chassis handles very similarly to an NA/NB, just with a couple tweaks. I noticed even with all stock rubber bushings, no added bracing, etc., it still feels stiffer and just as responsive as my NA did. Turn in is near-instant. I thought the new chassis was going to take some getting used to, but the car became familiar within the first few minutes of pushing it in the turns. It's still a Miata!
That being said, I'm also not completely used to driving with power steering again. I'm really enjoying having AC and PS again as daily creature comforts, but they likely won't stay on this car past Summer.
Other random thoughts and quips:
-The 7k/5k spring rates that the Teins come with are borderline too soft for even the current 235 width 300tw tire setup. Stiffer springs are going to be needed once I put some actual sticky tires on this thing.
-Stock cooling system with a couple vents is pretty strong. It was around 90-95* out today and I never saw coolant temps pass 215* even chasing my buddies in faster cars up sustained hillclimbs.
-The same could not be said for IATs with the stock intake, though. 137* was the highest I clocked while driving lol.
-I was able to get the stock pads hot enough that I could smell them a few minutes into an uphill run. This wasn't absolute ***** to the walls driving either. I was already planning on getting more aggressive pads for track use, but damn, I never had that happen in the NA.
-One burrito is more filling than three tacos.
-The car needs more power (we all already knew this).
Holy heat soak, Batman!
The head unit in the car has a bluetooth OBDii dongle and app that allows any of the ECU PIDs to be displayed on the screen. It's not in the perfect location for a gauge cluster but I just barely have to take my eyes off the road to check coolant temperature. Very useful and negates the immediate need to plumb and wire a coolant temp gauge, so I'm happy about that.
If only the factory oil pressure sender actually did anything... I removed the sender to install a tee for my oil pressure and temperature but the oil pressure gauge on the dash still works. Come to find out, it's simulated based on RPM and coolant temperature. The factory sender and wiring for it do absolutely nothing lol.
Gonna try to get the last hood vent installed this week along with the oil pressure and temperature gauge. After that, I'm gonna grab a couple RX8 front hubs and some ARP extended studs from Good-Win so I can get that mod out of the way and not worry about losing a (front) wheel. I know I should upgrade the rear hubs sooner rather than later too. Then, it's probably onto brakes. Still waiting on TDR for my underhood airflow kit. They said it should ship sometime this week so I'm not expecting it to be done by the weekend.
Nice! Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far and that the car feels familiar. I got to drive my friend's ND2 on the xidas and I must admit it felt way better than my car has ever felt. It's crazy how much better the NC and ND chassis are. Those temps seem about right if the car sat for a bit with no air flow and is what I'm trying to fight off with some gold foil around the ITBs. What are you planning to do about it, if anything? I imagine the vents should help some?
Thanks, Ricardo! Yeah, I was thinking the new chassis would take a lot of getting used to, but like I said, it's still a Miata lol. I've only driven a stock ND up and down the road by my work before. Gotta imagine one with Xidas feels pretty dang good.
Yeah, I was gonna say I'm sure that level heat soak is normal but the IATs still don't seem ideal. Hell, that's higher than my turbo'd car ran on average haha. I only have a couple plans that might affect the IATs. The OEM airbox is this big boxy unit that's situated right in the radiator's exhaust flow. I have that TDR kit on order which includes a cold air intake that I hope will soak up less of that hot air due to lower surface area. I still have to install the driver side vent too which should help some as it's positioned right above the intake/MAF sensor. We'll see!
Really loving where this build is going and following along with your updates. I'm very curious how you find the NC handling at the limit, at the track. My buddies is well setup and similar alignment but he's never been able to fully dial the push out of the car. In his words he preferred the NA/NB handling "feel", though the NC is superior in every measurable way.
Super excited to follow this build! Sad to hear about the NA but totally understand and I think about doing the same thing sometimes... This thread has come at a bad time for my wallet though lol as I finally drove an NC for the first time a few weeks ago and was super impressed how fun it was. That already put me on the NC train, the racecar looks like it may have gone through another engine again, and now this cool build thread on an NC.... lol. On a side note, the NC I drove had a tune with auto-blip and it was the first time I have ever driven a car with that and it was hilarious fun downshifting haha, definitely recommend.
Thanks to everyone following along and responding! I really mean it, you guys are a big source of motivation for me to pour hours of time and sanity into these projects. I sure as heck don't want to dissuade anyone from their current projects, but if anyone wants to pick up a junkyard NC and go through this process with me, feel free There's much less info on MT.net regarding NC race builds vs NA/NBs currently. I've been finding a lot of good info on M.net surprisingly, but the threads range from a few guys with killer track builds to discussions questioning why the factory oil pressure gauge reads higher at redline than idle. Lots of sifting to be done.
Originally Posted by Fireindc
Really loving where this build is going and following along with your updates. I'm very curious how you find the NC handling at the limit, at the track. My buddies is well setup and similar alignment but he's never been able to fully dial the push out of the car. In his words he preferred the NA/NB handling "feel", though the NC is superior in every measurable way.
Huh, interesting. I'll be sure to report back in detail with what the car does on track once it cools down here. Generally speaking, if I can get the car to oversteer in the canyons, that means it's going to oversteer much more on track for me. I generally keep my driving ~20% below the limit on the street compared to on track. On Sunday, I was able to generate a little bit of exit oversteer in corners I was familiar with, and even felt the car bordering on entry oversteer a couple times. Trail braking seemed to be more of a substantial factor in getting the car to rotate versus my NA, though. I assume that's because the suspension is so much softer on this car currently (running literally half of the spring rate front and rear compared to the NA). The car would tend slightly toward plowing in corners with no prior braking input. It was mild enough though that I assume it could be tuned out with ride height or sway bar settings.
Originally Posted by RASKAR
Super excited to follow this build! Sad to hear about the NA but totally understand and I think about doing the same thing sometimes... This thread has come at a bad time for my wallet though lol as I finally drove an NC for the first time a few weeks ago and was super impressed how fun it was. That already put me on the NC train, the racecar looks like it may have gone through another engine again, and now this cool build thread on an NC.... lol. On a side note, the NC I drove had a tune with auto-blip and it was the first time I have ever driven a car with that and it was hilarious fun downshifting haha, definitely recommend.
Yo, what did I miss in your thread regarding the engine? What happened? Super bummed to hear that man...
Yeah, I've done some research on the ECU tuning options with these things though and it seems like most support auto-blip and flat shifting, which could be super fun haha. I've driven a couple of the new Mustangs with auto-blip and it feels kinda cheat-y but is kinda fun haha. Dunno if I could live it down running that assist on track but flat shifting seems like something I'd definitely be into! I know I could've set that up in my NA but never got around to it.
Originally Posted by Padlock
this thread will single-handedly have all of us parting out to buy NC's....
Yo, what did I miss in your thread regarding the engine? What happened? Super bummed to hear that man...
You didn't miss anything, this just happened a few days ago. I will update it once I figure out what is going on. Fixed the coolant leak and put my street pads and exhaust back on to bring it to a work car show this week and it is burning a lot of oil all of a sudden... again. I don't want to derail your build thread with my bullshit though haha, I will dig into it this week/weekend with a compression and leak down test and post any updates to my thread. Keep up the good work on the NC!
Dude, yeah, it's sublime haha. Also just so many less quirks to keep track of when the car is nearly stock. I'm not gonna keep it this way for too long but I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
255s are the max that'll fit under the stock fenders but I've seen these cars run 265s or 275s with fender flares. My current plan is to stick a set of 17x10s under the car with 255s once it's making sufficient power. Until then, I'll rock these 300TW 235s on 17x8s and probably swap out to a set of 200TW 225s once they wear out. The cool thing is that there are SO many tire choices in all these sizes. With the NA, I was limited to 200TW tires only as no higher treadwear tires were made in sizes wide enough to run on my 15x9s that I needed to clear the front brakes. I'll probably actually have separate sets of street and track wheels and tires for this thing at some point.
And yeah dude, I saw lower IATs on warm track days with my turbo car haha. Feel like there's gotta be a little power to gain there with a non-stock intake box.
Gotcha, I forgot the guy that runs with us has flares. I think he's on 275s. 17's definitely open up the options, 245/15 200 TW options are a bit scarce.
Just to plant another seed, I think it's common for the overflow tank on those cars to pop. IDK if yours is stock, but I know someone who just upgraded to a metal one as a preventative measure.
255s on 15x9s are an easy fit with a fender roll and some camber. Our old NC Club, on 255 RE71s / 17x9 RPF1:
Originally Posted by SimBa
Just to plant another seed, I think it's common for the overflow tank on those cars to pop. IDK if yours is stock, but I know someone who just upgraded to a metal one as a preventative measure.
It's a pretty good idea on any NC, and definitely for a high miler. I've already got one inbound for the NC2 we just bought.
Glad to know the 255s fit easy. I don't think I'll go wider than that but who knows what the future holds haha.
Ahh, thanks for reminding me guys. The PO gave me a Moroso aluminum tank with the car but said the cap was leaking. I need to run through CSF's website and grab myself a new cap for it. The tank that's in the car is a brand new plastic one.
Update time again. Got the final hood vent installed earlier this week, finished installing the oil pressure/temp sensors and gauge, and popped in a set of P2M tie rod ends to tune out oversteer. RX8 front hubs from Good-Win should show up tomorrow, heading to the spa for my fiancé's birthday Saturday then hitting the canyons Sunday so I don't know if those will get installed this weekend. Got some extended aluminum lug nuts and am gonna steal some of the ARP extended studs from the NA to install on the new hubs too. Airflow kit from TDR is delayed another week. Kinda thinking I'll pull the trigger on a BBK soon so I can have another project tee'd up and keep the momentum going.
I've also been doing countless hours of research on 2.0/2.5L reliability with forced induction on track. Made a post on M.net and got a little feedback from the NC track guys. A couple recommended taking a 2.5L swap and destroking it with a 2.3L Ecoboost crank and Fab9's full 2.4L "Scalpel" Duratec engine build kit. Another high-compression 2.5L N/A guy gave feedback that a stock 2.5L with re-gapped rings should be safe to make 250-270 boosted WHP on track all day, citing tight ring gap is the choke point for boosting those motors on track. Pushing the limit with RPM seems to be a big killer of these motors on track too. Regardless of which direction I go, I'll be limiting redline below 7k. A 2.4L fully built Duratec is not out of the question down the line, but I want to get this project going with an unopened motor. Even cams seem like a waste of time to unlock an extra 15whp and wider powerband if I'm going to put forced induction in this thing anyways. Jury's still out. I haven't decided a build path yet but I'm at least a little more well-informed at this point.
Also, I confirmed with Fab9 that whether I go ECUtek or Versatune for tuning, I can play with the base tune myself as if I were on a standalone, so that's cool.
Oil pressure and temp gauge plumbing/wiring. I removed the factory oil pressure sender that literally doesn't do a single thing and tee'd in the pressure/temp sensors from my NA using this little steel tee. The temperature sensor isn't doing squat since it's not in the path of oil flow, but I wanted to get it wired in anyways so both sensors would be ready to mount in the Mad Fabworx oil filter perch when that comes in. Oil pressure functions for now, though, so that's good.
I also tried to make this gauge install a little cleaner than my last one. I actually wired power into a switched 12V source this time around instead of putting the gauge on its own circuit with a physical switch like the ones in my last car. The last car had five standalone gauges in it and they could be blinding at night even when dimmed, so I put the switch in to turn them off for visibility if need be. I plan on having fewer gauges in this car since the center display can broadcast coolant temp and I won't be monitoring trans temp either.
The NC center console is just as simple to remove as the NA/NB unit.
Also ordered and installed this set of Phase 2 Motorsports tie rod ends this week to tune out bump steer. I didn't feel any bump steer too bad while driving the canyons Sunday I knew the car was low and the tie rods were already level with the ground when the car was lifted in the air. Plus they were under $100 and the company is based 30 minutes from where I live. They come with a 5 and 10mm spacer to lower the tie rod end depending on how low your car is. Mine's currently on the very low side so I installed both spacers on top. Didn't take any photos of the tie rod angle after the install but they're much more level with the car sitting on the ground now.
More to come next week! Gonna rip the car again this weekend and think a little more about what BBK to go with. Got so much to do still but we're getting closer to the super exciting stuff!
Ahh good point. I didn't even consider the extended studs I was going to pull out are from my BroFab Yaris rear hubs (and an additional spare Yaris hub w/ ARP's I had sitting around). Low likelihood that they're going to have the OD that the RX8 hubs require. I'll give them a try still and order new ones if they aren't compatible.
08-02-2024, 10:14 AM
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There's much less info on MT.net regarding NC race builds vs NA/NBs currently. I've been finding a lot of good info on M.net surprisingly, but the threads range from a few guys with killer track builds to discussions questioning why the factory oil pressure gauge reads higher at redline than idle. Lots of sifting to be done.
