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Sorry to hear about your NA, but great choice on the NC! Like others have said, if I wasn't neck deep in an NA I've had since forever, I'd be building an NC. It's a great chassis! We had an NC3 Club PRHT for a few years, and would really like to get back into an NC2/3 PRHT for our 'street' Miata, but it's a great basis for a track car as well. More power, more tire, better brakes... big upgrade on the NA.
And K-Power just announced their K swap for the NC...
Yo Roda, thanks! I felt the exact same way while building my NA. It was originally supposed to be a daily driver with wheel and coilover upgrades so I never considered another chassis lol. At some point in the build, it dawned on me that it was going to take way more money to make the car run a sub-2 at Buttonwillow than I would've spent making another chassis do the same. However, I was too invested to just drop it (and don't get me wrong, I still loved the car). This seemed like an opportunity to make a jump into something that could achieve the same pace with a lower buy-in and less drastic mods. We'll see if my hypothesis proves to be correct.
I bet the K24 NC swap from KPower is probably going to be killer. Based on your and others' experiences with their engine swaps, I'd even bet it's a well-sorted piece of kit. That being said, I don't think I can give any more of my money to KP just based on principle alone haha. 2.5L swap is still in the cards (still cheap and replacement motors are cheap and easy to come by), or an NC2 motor swap (they got the factory forged internals) with forced induction will likely be the way I go. Rotrex really appeals to me but good point about FM abandoning their Rotrex kit. I didn't know they had one in the works but that says a lot if they ditched it. The specs on their turbo kit, once released, will play a factor in what I decide to do.
Originally Posted by Midtenn
because I am really sure he wants to give more money to KPI after all the trouble with the driveline swap in the NA....
I'm still waiting for my money back on the recent bad driveshaft I was sent lol. Was told last week I need to ship it back before I can get the refund.
Originally Posted by Ryfrog
DANG Going to miss seeing about your awesome NA, but excited to see you make the boat generation fun. Jokes aside awesome to see you're sticking with a miata and can't wait to see what you do to it. If it's 1/2 as cool as your NA was it'll be a sick little track car. All your bmw problems makes me want to lean towards 6speed or WALTERMOTORSPORTs built trans over the bmw swap especially for the money.
Thanks dude! Yeah, I'm sure I could've got the vibration taken care of, but the hurdle cost me 4 months of potential track time and also likely contributed to the water pump bolt backing out, tagging the timing belt and killing the cylinder 3 intake valves. It's still my responsibility and I should've been bolt checking the motor more often, though. I'm sure plenty of people have had success with the swap but I'd just limit myself to a standard 6 speed if I did it all again haha.
Originally Posted by Padlock
sub'd for drivetrain upgrades
Congrats on the new build. I'd be in the same boat (pun intended) of building an NC if I were starting from scratch.
Appreciate it, Pad! Glad I wasn't alone in thinking an NC is a more optimal starting point haha.
Just a thought as well, after having done vinyl wrap on my car as a first timer, I wouldn't be too afraid to tackle an NC in your shoes. I did my full car wrap for ~$600 and that was a bit of a premium because I have 3 separate colors (and lots of leftovers for future use). You could probably do a single color for around $500 as long as it's not an exotic color morphing vinyl or chrome. I'd strongly consider that instead of a macco paint job.
Pad, yeah I didn't even consider doing a wrap on it until yesterday. A coworker of mine said he's got a buddy who does wraps that might be able to hook me up. For all intents and purposes on this build, I think a wrap would be absolutely fine.
I'll probably end up having someone else do the wrap if I pull the trigger, though. I'm all for DIY, but I'm so goddamn busy right now parting out the NA and there's a lot of projects I have on the list for this car as well. You remember roughly how long it took to do your car?
I also know a lot of guys had to re-work the Rotrex kits for NA/NB to make them work properly and reliably for track use.
Those guys must have been the early Jackson racing kit adopters. I fitted a track dog kit to mine with a proper ecu (Haltech) and it’s been super reliable.
A lazy afternoon in the shed spinning spanners to bolt it all on and 3 years and 30 track days later, the spanners havent been needed since.
6 x 20 mins sessions per event in sometimes 100F heat and it doesn’t miss a beat. It’s even still running the same belt.
Those guys must have been the early Jackson racing kit adopters. I fitted a track dog kit to mine with a proper ecu (Haltech) and it’s been super reliable.
A lazy afternoon in the shed spinning spanners to bolt it all on and 3 years and 30 track days later, the spanners havent been needed since.
6 x 20 mins sessions per event in sometimes 100F heat and it doesn’t miss a beat. It’s even still running the same belt.
I'm about to fill up your PM inbox.
Edit: wait, you're talking about an NA/NB, right? I was wondering why I hadn't seen an NC kit during my research and just saw they only do NA/NB and ND kits.
Edit: wait, you're talking about an NA/NB, right? I was wondering why I hadn't seen an NC kit during my research and just saw they only do NA/NB and ND kits.
yes, NB1, I was responding to Roda's comment as he directly referenced NA/NB.
I was wondering why I hadn't seen an NC kit during my research and just saw they only do NA/NB and ND kits.
Kraftwerks makes an NC kit, it looked nice and I liked the placement and intake setup when I was looking into it (research for my buddies NC). I'm sure you saw that though.
Kraftwerks makes an NC kit, it looked nice and I liked the placement and intake setup when I was looking into it (research for my buddies NC). I'm sure you saw that though.
Ah, I was getting confused again. I was remembering the BBR and Kraftwerks as the same kit. Been looking at too many parts/things this week. Kraftwerks kit is definitely nicer from a cost perspective too.
Originally Posted by Satisaii
We have the BBR kit on ours.
I hope to have it back on the road next week.
Kaiko? Dang, good to hear. It’s been about a year since the dyno misadventure, right? Did you guys just drop another new 2.0 in it?
Those guys must have been the early Jackson racing kit adopters. I fitted a track dog kit to mine with a proper ecu (Haltech) and it’s been super reliable.
A lazy afternoon in the shed spinning spanners to bolt it all on and 3 years and 30 track days later, the spanners havent been needed since.
6 x 20 mins sessions per event in sometimes 100F heat and it doesn’t miss a beat. It’s even still running the same belt.
"A lot" was probably an overstatement... 3 guys I've talked to directly, at the track, all NA/NB TDR kits. All had problems with either belt tension/alignment, or stability with the TDR brackets and had to make modifications to make them track reliable. I was VERY interested in the Rotrex, but never convinced enough to spend the money on it. Same thing with the NC, and we had an NC at the time FM was working on an NC Rotrex setup... and FM ditched it after a couple years of development. They wouldn't talk about why, but I know them well enough to know there was a reason. I still think the Rotrex itself is a great power adder, just that the NA/NB Miata kits on the market leave some problem solving to the customer... I just learned (in this thread) that BBR is making an NC kit... don't have any first hand knowledge about that one.
You remember roughly how long it took to do your car?
I did mine over the course of the winter offseason here in Wisconsin, so it was pretty broken up as far as timing. Going off memory:
Doors/Trunk/Hood: very simple one man job - <1hr each
Hardtop: Not particularly hard but a big piece to do at once, extra hand from a friend is useful - ~3hrs
Front/Rear Bumpers: grab a friend, the extra hand will definitely help. do some research on how to do inlays. my bumpers aren't perfect and I want to redo them at some point, but they pass the 5ft test and are still way better than the paint underneath. ~4hrs each
Rear Quarters and Front Fenders: not particularly challenging if you learn how to work with the vinyl from the easier doors/trunk/hood. ~2hrs each
Misc window frames, handles, mirrors, wing, endplates, etc - <1hr each
In total, I've probably got ~30hrs into the full wrap on my car, but I didn't do myself favors by using 3 different colors as a first timer. It was a great learning process and I wouldn't be afraid to do it again. For a dual duty track/street car, I struggle to justify getting a nice paint job because I know the front end will get beat up with stone chips. With a wrap, if it gets beat up, it is relatively simple (and cheap!) to just redo that panel.
You remember roughly how long it took to do your car?
You're a tenacious dude, you'd have it done in ~48hrs I'd bet.
My Miata was my first ever wrap, obviously not my DD so I was able to take my time but honestly, once you get a feel for how the vinyl works it becomes super easy. Get you some vinyl, felt squeegee, felt glove, knife-less tape and get to work.
This gives me much to think about. That's a lot of hours considering how many other mods/adjustments/maintenance I still have to get done on this thing, but I guess I don't have to do it all in one go. I'll give wrapping it myself some consideration.
On the coattails of that post, I gave color schemes a bit of thought yesterday as well.
During my lunch break, I pulled the car in to set ride heights in preparation for an alignment. The car drives perfectly straight right now and the steering wheel is centered, but I figure I might as well record the baseline measurements and/or mess with camber settings to prepare it for aggressive driving. Ride heights were all pretty close to each other but the car definitely has some soild rake in it. LF: 12 1/8" RF: 12 3/8" LR: 12 3/4" RR 12 5/8". I figured I'd raise the front left and drop the left rear to start (Supermiata recommends a max of 5mm rake on their dual duty/race alignments for the NC). Unfortunately, I soon found out that I left the Tein spanners at the PO's house when I picked up the car, so that idea went out the window. Ordered the correct spanners and will set the heights/align the car next week.
I refocused and went to work using a pneumatic polisher to get rid of the surface rust spots on the hood. Couldn't stop myself there, though, and ended up doing a quick matte black rattle can job on the hood. Don't worry, it's not permanent by any stretch lol. Seeing the hardtop and windshield are already a different color than the rest of the car, I got to thinking that my future color scheme could be two-tone, with the hood included as well. One member who was messaging me about some parts from the NA shared a pic of his NC2, which is gloss white with a red hardtop. I like the look of it, but think that Gloss white with a color-matched red hardtop, windshield, and hood would go super hard. Especially with black wheels. I also figured the paint on the hood is gonna come off anyway, since it was all bubbled and peeling, so I'm not really making any additional work for my future self with the rattle can job. The hood looks janky as is, but seeing the two-tone layout makes me think I'd really like to go that route once I decide and pull the trigger on wrap/paint.
Homeboy's NC2.
I haven't had much other time to tear into the NC this week because I've been in over my head tearing parts off the NA as they sell. Spent a couple hours tearing stuff off it Wednesday night, a few hours last night, and have 3 or 4 guys coming over to pick up parts from it tonight. The good news is that all those parts are quickly subsidizing this build, the bad news is that I haven't been able to tear into the NC much yet lol. I did order the 3-hood vent setup from R-Theory which will be arriving next week, and am going to get a pair of RX8 front hubs ordered from GoodWin so I don't have to worry about those failing. The car's only on 17x8s with 300TW 235 width Yoko V701s, so I don't think I'm even near the hub-shearing danger zone currently. Might as well get the car ready for extreme grip ahead of time. Pic of both Miatas in my "driveway". Couldn't post a pic of the NA from the front. Too sad.
Since I'm a glutton for punishment, I decided to toss the rails and my Sparco Pro2000 seat into the NC last night at 9pm-ish after finishing on the NA. I am pleased to say that mounting a bucket into an NC is much more enjoyable than in an NA/NB. With the seat mounted, I can pull the whole assembly out of the NC in about one minute as opposed to 20 or so in my NA. Some of this is probably due to the fact that I had my seat in the NA basically mounted on the ground to pass the broomstick test. Anyways, I got the seat mounted in the NC last night. Kinda just... mounted the seat to the rails and dropped it in. No trans tunnel bashing or anything. I guess that's to be expected. The lowest setting on the rails is a little too high for me (6'0). I took them to work today and drilled a couple holes about an inch lower than the lowest current ones. That's as low as we can go for now. We'll see if this gets me low enough. The rails are a PCI slider-type, so if I need to, I can get regular side rails and drop the seat another inch or two.
Next step: getting my Sparco steering wheel transferred over, seeing if my AntiGrav battery has enough grunt to start the car, then grabbing TDR's "SuperCool" air flow kit to get the battery box, ECU, PS reservoir, and air filter box out of the way of the radiator outlet.
Sample NC engine bay. That is one crowded-*** b*tch.
Had a pretty big weekend removing and selling parts from the NA. A decent chunk of the car is either sold or spoken for at this point. I've just been trying to keep up with pulling all the parts that people are requesting.
I drove the NC just a bit over the weekend to run errands. Interesting and notable, the ECU targets 11.5:1 AFR under WOT. I know OEM ECUs run a little rich under heavy load but wasn't expecting that much. The only time I recorded AFRs at WOT was on a 3.5 turbo F150 which targeted 10.0:1, but I figured the N/A cars would still be a little less aggressive with AFRs. Cool to know there's probably some power to be unlocked there on my NC via just an ECU tune.
Coilovers and wheels sold over the weekend, brakes sold, lots of other small parts sold. Sad but it's good for funding the NC build.
If anyone's curious, an AntiGravity ATX-12-HD battery will start an NC Miata in ~65*F weather. Mine cranked the engine over with no hesitation, but I'll wait until it gets cold to say if it's viable year-round or not. 25+ lb weight savings over the OEM battery.
I also found some time last night to pull off the stock steering wheel and mount my NRG/Sparco R383 combo in the car as well. Luckily the NA/NB/NC steering wheel hubs are all the same, so I was able to transfer everything over from the NA. Being that I wasn't expecting to have time for it this weekend, I just used some random wire and the jerry-rigged paperclip setup from my NA for the horn wiring. I also swapped over my previous shift **** and extender. The cockpit now feels comfortably familiar being that it's all the same components from the NA.
I still have a little work to get the airbag light to turn off. From the reading I've done, you can fool the driver's airbag inputs by wiring 3 ohm resistors into each connector circuit, just like with the NA8s. The driver seat airbag input can be fooled with a 2 ohm resistor and the seat rail weight sensor just needs to be plugged in and cranked down with a hose clamp to simulate weight. I'll tackle those one at a time this week as I get time to do so. Still gonna be pretty busy tearing more stuff off the NA.
It's a racecor now. Cooling, brakes, and hub upgrades next.
BRAKES: I've got a couple different options I'm considering. There are plenty of NC big brake options but the answer seems slightly less obvious than when I was shopping for my NA's big brake kit
Good-Win Racing 12.88" Superlite Kit:https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazd...t/61-1299.html - Badass. 6-pot calipers. Huge 12.88" rotors. Fits my current wheels. The downside is that Good-Win says this kit basically NEEDS to be paired with their 12.88" rear BBK to be balanced out. That's roughly $4000 in brakes. Over my budget.
Good-Win Budget NC Front BBK:https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazd...t/61-2678.html - 12.19" rotors. 4 or 6-pot calipers. Much cheaper rotor rings. Looks like it fits my current wheels. Most importantly, they claim it pairs nicely with the stock rear brakes. Downside: Ryan himself said they wanted a little more brake than this kit on their 300whp track NC1. I'm sure it would be plenty for my purposes, but I want that extra headroom just in case this project gets out of hand eventually.
V8R KIT:https://v8roadsters.com/product/mx5-...big-brake-kit/ - Also a good contender. Price is right. Dynapro pads are inexpensive. 12.19" rotor option. No info listed regarding how these pair with the stock rear calipers. Will have to contact V8R.
FlyinMiata Little BBK Stage 1-4: These all use the stock 11.5" rotor size. I know FM has their stuff sorted and I'm sure the added heat capacity on these is fine for some applications but if I'm throwing on a BBK, I want bigger rotors.
Keisler Automation Superlite BBK:https://www.keislerautomation.com/nc...iper-kit-34lb7 - This kit really intrigues me. Low price tag. Uses 12.7" RX8 sport rotors (cheap and easy to find). Their site claims it pairs well with stock rear calipers. Based on the listed wheel sizes that fit, it looks like my 17x8 PF01s may not clear the calipers, though. Will have to measure later.
Update time! (We're still in the expositionary stage) Did a bunch more research this week. Got a few things done and a few other things brewing on the car.
So far this week, I've set the ride heights, given the car a proper alignment, machined the front rotors, balanced the front wheels/tires, partially popped the dent out of the passenger door, and started on the hood vent install.
Parts currently being waited on: TrackDog Racing battery/power steering reservoir/ECU relocation brackets and cold air intake (all to open up the radiator exit for cooling purposes), Mad Fabworx oil filter perch (with oil pressure/temp sensor and 10AN oil cooler fittings).
After doing some research, I found a pretty common issue on the MZR motor is for the oil filter threads to snap off following the install of an oil cooler sandwich plate, spraying oil all over the left front tire and then grenading the motor. I didn't want to become the next victim so I preordered a custom oil filter perch from AR Hindrichs that's made to combat that specific issue. In the meantime, I'm going to remove the factory oil pressure sender (used for the dash gauge only) and installing a tee for my oil pressure and temp gauges there. Don't think I'll need to install an oil cooler while the engine is still making stock power, but I'll be ready to do so down the road.
Got the ride heights set up and the car aligned on Tuesday. Raised the LF and lowered LR to match the other side. Front ride height is now 12 3/8" and rear is 12 3/4". Not sure if 3/8" of rake is gonna be too much but I'm sure I'll get a feel for it after some canyon driving this weekend. Alignment specs were pretty close to ideal. Steering wheel was just a tiny bit off center after install and camber needed to be adjusted as well. The NC eccentrics are more beefy than the NA ones so hopefully I won't have to worry about the bolts slipping or wearing out quickly. Before and after alignment specs below. I basically followed SM's dual duty alignment. Should be a good starting point for the 235 width 300TW Yoko V701s that are currently on the car (and have 90% tread left and won't be getting replaced soon).
Then yesterday, I received the R Theory hood vents that I ordered last week. I went with the R Theory kit over the Singulars because it seemed like more open surface area on the hood, it was a hair cheaper, and the Singular vents are much more common to see on NCs. Maybe that's for good reason, but the R Theory vents are about the same size and sit in the same position (plus there's one additional vent in the center), so I figured they should work at least as well as the competition's. It's worth noting, though, that the R theory kit does not include hardware or rubber trim like the Singular kit, and the vents don't come anodized or painted (even though their website shows them black in all the photos). Mine showed up with a raw aluminum finish and I had to paint them first. I also had just enough rubber trim left over from my Singular fender vents to get the center hood vent done. I ordered some more rubber trim and will have to wait till next week to do the side vents.
All that being said, I'm happy with how the center vent turned out. My first hood vent install on the NA went rough. I opened some of the holes up too much and a couple spots of daylight were visible between the hood and vents, even with the rubber trim over the top. I also installed the vents above the hood instead of below which I later regretted. I specifically wanted to do a better job with these so I took a little more time and got them mounted below the hood and with a "tighter" fit. It's not a perfect job, but I'm happy with it.
I'll probably start wiring up my oil pressure and temperature sensor tomorrow depending on how my day goes. Otherwise the next item on the menu is getting some mountain miles in this weekend!
07-24-2024, 01:58 PM
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