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I don't know what is causing your issue so I didn't make any definitive statements, but I think I may have neglected to make the point I intended to. The fluid dynamics (and where oil gets deposited) between a system in vacuum vs. a system under pressure are probably different. I wasn't thinking about blowby as the source of oil, but as the pressure source in your scenario.
I haven't been to a track in years, but the last time was on 200tw street tires/dadbod-non-hero driving so probably slower and less lateral force.
Gotcha, I get what you are saying. Maybe having some vacuum on the crankcase would help keep oil from pooling into the baffles you are saying (I think).
I don't run scrubbers in my VC. I've read conflicting ideas on this, the scrubbers might hold oil on them and allow it to more easily get blown into the can by the blow-by. They of course might also help catch vapors out of the air as well, which is the idea people use them for. I can't say, I decided to not go that route.
I do believe that even if the oil is coming out of the hot side, that there is major benefit to opening up the diameter or the hole in the baffle and the lines themselves. Higher volume = lower pressure, and the pressure is what pushes the oil into the can.
I don't run scrubbers in my VC. I've read conflicting ideas on this, the scrubbers might hold oil on them and allow it to more easily get blown into the can by the blow-by. They of course might also help catch vapors out of the air as well, which is the idea people use them for. I can't say, I decided to not go that route.
I do believe that even if the oil is coming out of the hot side, that there is major benefit to opening up the diameter or the hole in the baffle and the lines themselves. Higher volume = lower pressure, and the pressure is what pushes the oil into the can.
Yeah I have been half and half about the scrubbers which is why I didn't put them in this last time. And with the higher volume = lower pressure that I think does make a lot of sense so probably worthwhile for me to drill a few more holes in there.
Do you think it would be beneficial or detrimental to just dremel a slot in there instead of the cheese grater type holes (no offense to your holes )
Something like this:
Also did you just put a pipe plug or something into the pcv side to block it off?
Well boys looks like the catch can setup is the least of my worries. Went to pull the car off the trailer and oil pressure has left the chat. I drove it onto the traiiler last night just fine so not really sure what happened... Wire is still on the pressure sensor and when I did run it at first it certainly sounded like no oil pressure. Lifter tick and then it just didn't go away, looked at the gauge, saw zero and shut it off. Fun fun...
I've seen this on recently rebuilt engines where the relief valves gets stuck in "full dump" mode. A quick engine pull, oil pump replacement, and engine reinstall fixed it.
Oh man, gutted to see this. Godspeed man. Keep us updated
Thanks dude, certainly will do.
Originally Posted by curly
I've seen this on recently rebuilt engines where the relief valves gets stuck in "full dump" mode. A quick engine pull, oil pump replacement, and engine reinstall fixed it.
Whats interesting is that this is just a stock, unopened BP05 long block I bought so I could run this year while I build the other engine outside of the car. I have seen stuck relief valves before though so that also crossed my mind of potentially being the problem, but gotta pull the pump either way. Tomorrow I am going to try and get it off the trailer which is hard to do solo if the car "doesnt run" as its a tilt deck. I am going to pull the oil pressure sensor out and give it a quick crank and see if I get oil out of the port or not just as a final double check that it genuinely has no pressure and isn't just a broken sensor or something. If we get no oil then on to oil pump removal.
When I had a stuck relief valve, I just removed the alternator, removed the screwed-in plug, and then did 'something' to the ball, can't remember what I did as that was back in the dark ages. Whatever I did worked, the OP came up as soon as the crank rotated, and the problem never recurred. In my case the car had been sitting for some months untouched, bit different to overnight on the trailer!
Last edited by Gee Emm; 06-21-2024 at 03:47 AM.
Reason: spelin
When I had a stuck relief valve, I just removed the alternator, removed the screwed-in plug, and then did 'something' to the ball, can't remember what I did as that was back in the dark ages. Whatever I did worked, the OP came up as soon as the crank rotated, and the problem never recurred. In my case the car had been sitting for some moths untouched, bit different to overnight on the trailer!
Interesting. Well of course I couldn't keep sitting inside not knowing what went wrong so I managed to get it off the trailer and into the garage solo. I pulled the turbo oil feed and stuck it in a bottle and cranked the engine over for 10sec with the fuel relay out and didn't even get a drop out of the turbo feed. So definitely not just the pressure sensor... I saw this comment so I pulled the alt and pulled that plug but I don't really see much in there. I assume that ties into the passage the pressure relief valve is in but I can't remember as it's been years and years since I have pulled one of these pumps apart.
Sorry for the shitty angles, best I can do trying to cram my phone and light down there.
Not a minute later I remember that we do in fact have the technology to solve this imaging problem. Not super HD I know but still a better view for anyone more knowledgeable than I:
That steel ball was my problem, it was jammed. Someone correct me, but it is part of the pressure relief system? I moved it, then primed it and put the plug back, job done. As I said I have no memory of the details unfortunately.
Update; oil pump is out, gears are fine, pressure relief valve is stuck. I had access to a lift this time which was very nice so decided to try dropping the subframe vs pulling the engine like I have before and honestly, at least with a lift, I think this is easier and quicker.
Especially if you dont have power steering you wouldnt even have to drain anything. Got the subframe on the ground and pulled the pan.
Still nothing weird yet, no particles or pieces in the pan, on the pick-up, or on my magnetic drain plug. Pulled the oil pump and the pump cover and the gears look fine and spin freely.
The pressure relief valve was stuck in what I assume is the closed position. This seemed weird to me as I expected it to be stuck open to cause zero oil pressure. As far as I understand it that plunger just controls how much oil is bypassed from the high pressure side of the pump to the low pressure side, so the more open it is the lower the pressure and the more closed it is the higher the pressure. In my mind I would think that being stuck mostly closed would cause extra high oil pressure and not zero but I also may not be understanding this correctly. Regardless, with the spring removed the plunger did not budge and was definitely stuck. I managed to smack it out with a hammer and a small screw driver and didn't see any particulate inside the bypass chamber, but the piston itself was scored.
I think I have a spare VVT pump on one of my short blocks. I am just going to pull that off and use that for now. Im still just kinda confused what caused all of this. Stock OEM long block, stock redline with a superdamper, oil and filter had ~200mi on them, and the car had fine oil pressure on track all day but magically none when I went to take it off the trailer. At least we know the failure now, but the cause is still a mystery to me.
FWIW, I’ve had a Boundary Stage 2 pump and OEM BPE8 pump both get stuck in the closed position, but this just caused excessive oil pressure at moderate-higher RPMs when cold. That pic you took makes it look like your plunger might have been stuck just a hair open?
Subframe drop to remove the oil pump is definitely the move if you have a lift. I did mine that way but with a pole jack under the trans. Looks like it’d be even better with an engine cradle.
FWIW, I’ve had a Boundary Stage 2 pump and OEM BPE8 pump both get stuck in the closed position, but this just caused excessive oil pressure at moderate-higher RPMs when cold. That pic you took makes it look like your plunger might have been stuck just a hair open?
Subframe drop to remove the oil pump is definitely the move if you have a lift. I did mine that way but with a pole jack under the trans. Looks like it’d be even better with an engine cradle.
Interesting. Yeah it wasn't fully closed, it had a small enough opening to stick a pocket screwdriver in, but I wouldn't have thought that would cause zero oil pressure. We will find out when we put the new pump in haha
And yeah I am lucky my buddy just build a big garage in his back yard with a lift and was kind enough to let me use it. I'm used to working on my garage floor so this is so much better.
Damn! Quick work, last I checked we were talking about a minor breather issue and now this.
To answer your question, I do believe you could just open the area in the VC baffle with a dremel like you mentioned. I did holes because it was easy and I've seen others doing it that way.
Alright, new VVT pump in, pan back on and subframe back in the car.
After cleaning out the pan with brake clean I did find this little piece in the bottom of the pan. Maybe another piece like this got caught in the bypass? Idk I didn't find anything when I took the other pump apart and not sure where this would have come from.
Hopefully going to get back out there Monday after work and get it all done. Fingers crossed for no clanking when we start it up with the new pump haha
Large lines, fittings, and openings will slow the velocity of the air and allow the oil vapor to fall out of suspension prior to the catch can. Scrubbers can aid in collecting the oil suspended in the air.
I'm pretty sure I posted in that thread.
Try spraying Windex through a scrubber and see if it collects the fine droplets and drains them as large, heavy drops.
I can run for days at high RPMs at 21psi (325whp) with a teaspoon or less ending up in the can.
I used to sell vacuum street sweeper trucks. They use velocity to suspend and keep suspended water, sand, dirt, gravel, leaves, and other debris as they travel through 12-in diameter pipes. They then have a large collection area for settling all of those things out of the air stream by slowing the travel speed of the air and having it travel through an area 7 ft wide, 12 ft long, and 5 ft high. With the reduction of velocity of the air pretty much everything is deposited in the debris tank. The lessons from these things are fairly universal in application.
Large lines, fittings, and openings will slow the velocity of the air and allow the oil vapor to fall out of suspension prior to the catch can. Scrubbers can aid in collecting the oil suspended in the air.
I'm pretty sure I posted in that thread.
Try spraying Windex through a scrubber and see if it collects the fine droplets and drains them as large, heavy drops.
I can run for days at high RPMs at 21psi (325whp) with a teaspoon or less ending up in the can.
Gotcha, makes sense. Do you think I just have too small of lines still then? I will try and look back through for your setup in that thread then, trying to get all the ideas I can
06-20-2024, 03:14 PM
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