Chiburbian's 01' Lots of potential, no follow-through build
05-12-2013 | 06:19 PM
#101
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Update: Harness has been modified. Daughtercard has been installed. Knock mod has been added. On board clock has been added.
Car starts and drives, but did did kinda strand me last night. I spent about two hours driving it around and eventually went to a friend's shop to show him the EMS and install a new VSS since mine had been failing lately. When I hopped in the car to drive it off the lift, it wouldn't start. I am not sure what happened. By this time it was midnight and I was an hour from home so I let the stock ECU control things for the drive home.
I recalibrated my sensors and found that for some reason my trigger was set to toothed wheel instead of Miata. I don't know how that changed, or if it had anything to do with my problem. I fixed the MSQ and tried starting it. It stumbled awake.
Over the course of the day today I have driven it another couple hours. I must have had a funky calibration on my coolant sensor or IAT, I don't know. All I know is that I almost started from scratch today with my VE map. When I started driving I couldn't even rev above 4500 my map was so lean. I manually fattened up my map all across the board and then let auto-analyze take over the rest. Attached is my most recent MSQ. (along with a short log that shows a weird idle issue I have when I roll my windows up)
A/C works. Fans work, Cruise control works.
I have my VSS going to nitrous in... Can I use that input for VSS? What position should JP8 be in? Anything I should know?
Car starts and drives, but did did kinda strand me last night. I spent about two hours driving it around and eventually went to a friend's shop to show him the EMS and install a new VSS since mine had been failing lately. When I hopped in the car to drive it off the lift, it wouldn't start. I am not sure what happened. By this time it was midnight and I was an hour from home so I let the stock ECU control things for the drive home.
I recalibrated my sensors and found that for some reason my trigger was set to toothed wheel instead of Miata. I don't know how that changed, or if it had anything to do with my problem. I fixed the MSQ and tried starting it. It stumbled awake.
Over the course of the day today I have driven it another couple hours. I must have had a funky calibration on my coolant sensor or IAT, I don't know. All I know is that I almost started from scratch today with my VE map. When I started driving I couldn't even rev above 4500 my map was so lean. I manually fattened up my map all across the board and then let auto-analyze take over the rest. Attached is my most recent MSQ. (along with a short log that shows a weird idle issue I have when I roll my windows up)
A/C works. Fans work, Cruise control works.
I have my VSS going to nitrous in... Can I use that input for VSS? What position should JP8 be in? Anything I should know?
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05-12-2013 | 06:20 PM
#102
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
I have purge control active because I thought I heard somewhere that if you didn't it would get saturated with fuel. I figured just let the darn thing work how its meant to, as best I can of course.
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05-18-2013 | 08:11 PM
#103
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Man I have had a hell of a week.
I activated VVT and my map no longer worked for me. It has been giving me fits. I would post a log, but that isn't really my issue because I noticed that my wideband guage didn't match my megasquirt. I took a meter to the output wire and took voltages at the rich end of the scale and again at the lean side. I then entered these values into tunerstudio.
I was still off by .3 so I just guess and checked myself several times until I got my guage to agree with MS all up and down the scale. I will probably do a free air and propane test when I pull the down pipe to install the turbo.
...If that ever happens, because I might have had a catastrophic failure today. I was out running errands getting stuff for the clutch install I have scheduled for tomorrow when I noticed that it was taking a long time to get up to temperature. Easily twice as long as normal to my reckoning. Later I came to one of my stops and decided to mess with the idle for a minute or two.
It was then that I noticed I was leaking coolant out of the BOILING overflow bottle. Guage on dash was almost pegged and guage in tunerstudio was only at 170ish. I killed it immediately and lowered the threshold for turning on the cooling fan.
I re-entered the values for my coolant temperature sensor and after a few minutes restarted the car.
I was able to keep the coolant at 3/4 guage (on dash) and an indicated 168ish on the MS and drove it gingerly home.
I am concerned that I overheated the car somewhere along the way and I may need a new head gasket. I pulled the radiator cap when it cooled (and again while hot like a dumb *** giving myself 2nd degree burns but that is another story). I topped off the radiator and topped off the coolant overflow. I let the car get up to temperature and again saw small bubbles working thier way into the coolant tank. I shut off the car, reservoir went dry, filled it back up, repeated several times.
No milky oil, no steam or coolant smell in exhaust (but could burning glycol be messing with my EFRs?), and nothing else that sticks out.
:worried:
Letting it cool down to ambient before I start it again and give it another try.
I activated VVT and my map no longer worked for me. It has been giving me fits. I would post a log, but that isn't really my issue because I noticed that my wideband guage didn't match my megasquirt. I took a meter to the output wire and took voltages at the rich end of the scale and again at the lean side. I then entered these values into tunerstudio.
I was still off by .3 so I just guess and checked myself several times until I got my guage to agree with MS all up and down the scale. I will probably do a free air and propane test when I pull the down pipe to install the turbo.
...If that ever happens, because I might have had a catastrophic failure today. I was out running errands getting stuff for the clutch install I have scheduled for tomorrow when I noticed that it was taking a long time to get up to temperature. Easily twice as long as normal to my reckoning. Later I came to one of my stops and decided to mess with the idle for a minute or two.
It was then that I noticed I was leaking coolant out of the BOILING overflow bottle. Guage on dash was almost pegged and guage in tunerstudio was only at 170ish. I killed it immediately and lowered the threshold for turning on the cooling fan.
I re-entered the values for my coolant temperature sensor and after a few minutes restarted the car.
I was able to keep the coolant at 3/4 guage (on dash) and an indicated 168ish on the MS and drove it gingerly home.
I am concerned that I overheated the car somewhere along the way and I may need a new head gasket. I pulled the radiator cap when it cooled (and again while hot like a dumb *** giving myself 2nd degree burns but that is another story). I topped off the radiator and topped off the coolant overflow. I let the car get up to temperature and again saw small bubbles working thier way into the coolant tank. I shut off the car, reservoir went dry, filled it back up, repeated several times.
No milky oil, no steam or coolant smell in exhaust (but could burning glycol be messing with my EFRs?), and nothing else that sticks out.
:worried:
Letting it cool down to ambient before I start it again and give it another try.
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05-18-2013 | 09:14 PM
#104
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Loganville, GA
More info: checked car and both air temp and coolant temp matched what the weather channel says, so I took it out for a drive to check for problems. Drove about 7 miles. Never once got to 160 degrees indicated on coolant temperature sensor.
Partially stuck open thermostat maybe? I will update this post when I leave Buffalo Wild Wings with the results of wither or not my reservoir level had changed.
Partially stuck open thermostat maybe? I will update this post when I leave Buffalo Wild Wings with the results of wither or not my reservoir level had changed.
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05-18-2013 | 10:41 PM
#105
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Loganville, GA
More info: checked car and both air temp and coolant temp matched what the weather channel says, so I took it out for a drive to check for problems. Drove about 7 miles. Never once got to 160 degrees indicated on coolant temperature sensor.
Partially stuck open thermostat maybe? I will update this post when I leave Buffalo Wild Wings with the results of wither or not my reservoir level had changed.
Partially stuck open thermostat maybe? I will update this post when I leave Buffalo Wild Wings with the results of wither or not my reservoir level had changed.
Upon getting home popped hood, reservoir still full. No bubbles this time. Sitting by the car waiting for radiator to start pulling from reservoir.
Btw, at idle in driveway I was able to get the car up to a MS indicated 175 degrees and the dash guage was starting to get to 3/4 by that point.
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05-19-2013 | 12:36 AM
#107
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Jeeebus!
I have an ability to fudge stuff up that is approaching legendary...
Back in October 2011 I started this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...rs-ms3x-61372/
And thus continues my trail of tears which in a large degree is caused by my super long build process and all the starting and stopping.
According to that thread, I should have been using a (likely different than usual) bias resistor value in the Tunerstudio thermistor calibration (coolant temp) page.
Up until this point, I had been using a bias resistor value of 2490. After replacing that value in software with 1544 and burning it to the ECU, everything seems better. However, I don't know for sure if this is the correct value.
Matter of fact, I am unclear about what exactly a Bias resistor does. I can google, but the answer given is confusing to me.
For people who understand the meaning, could you describe what the bias resistor value does in terms of the coolant or other sensors? What is going on with a parallel ECU that requires the bias resistor value to change?
I will try and look for a good link/explanation tomorrow, but anybody has a good way to describe or explain it I would appreciate it.
I have an ability to fudge stuff up that is approaching legendary...
Back in October 2011 I started this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...rs-ms3x-61372/
And thus continues my trail of tears which in a large degree is caused by my super long build process and all the starting and stopping.
According to that thread, I should have been using a (likely different than usual) bias resistor value in the Tunerstudio thermistor calibration (coolant temp) page.
Up until this point, I had been using a bias resistor value of 2490. After replacing that value in software with 1544 and burning it to the ECU, everything seems better. However, I don't know for sure if this is the correct value.
Matter of fact, I am unclear about what exactly a Bias resistor does. I can google, but the answer given is confusing to me.
For people who understand the meaning, could you describe what the bias resistor value does in terms of the coolant or other sensors? What is going on with a parallel ECU that requires the bias resistor value to change?
I will try and look for a good link/explanation tomorrow, but anybody has a good way to describe or explain it I would appreciate it.
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05-19-2013 | 09:25 AM
#108
pretty much just a pull-up to 5v. But the value must be known as it will move the resistance scale of the sensor's output depending on the resistance of the bias resistor.
Your stock ECU already has them on those circuits inside the ECU, so with the ones added one R4 and R7 you've reduced the resistance to 5v since they are running in parallel.
Your stock ECU already has them on those circuits inside the ECU, so with the ones added one R4 and R7 you've reduced the resistance to 5v since they are running in parallel.
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05-19-2013 | 11:36 AM
#109
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
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From: Loganville, GA
R4 is still installed since I am not sharing AIT sensors.
R7 was never installed. It makes me feel good that I knew this stuff before I started, but I made the mistake of not creating a build log that included variations on my build and the whys. I guess this thread could be part of that, but I think having an easier to read document that I could update while I learned and made changes would be easier.
Oh- and learning from experience, take high resolution pictures of the front and back of your board and of every board mod. That way you can go back to your pictures to verify wither or not you did in fact omit D7 for instance. Saved me a half hour in removal and reinstall time.
R7 was never installed. It makes me feel good that I knew this stuff before I started, but I made the mistake of not creating a build log that included variations on my build and the whys. I guess this thread could be part of that, but I think having an easier to read document that I could update while I learned and made changes would be easier.
Oh- and learning from experience, take high resolution pictures of the front and back of your board and of every board mod. That way you can go back to your pictures to verify wither or not you did in fact omit D7 for instance. Saved me a half hour in removal and reinstall time.
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05-20-2013 | 01:21 AM
#110
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
949racing street clutch (ceramic sprung) and lightweight flywheel installed. I also installed a new slave cylinder with flexible line from Trackspeed Engineering.
The flexible clutch line says that it works with the bracket and clip that the stock curly que and rubber line do, but not until you round off one of the six hex points. When you take off your stock line look and you will see what I mean.
After that, replaced trans fluid and differential fluid. Flushed the clutch line with "Super Blue" fluid. Mainly we did this because it was easy to see when clean fluid was coming out.
I have pics on my phone but its too late to be logging on the computer. I will do that tomorrow.
The flexible clutch line says that it works with the bracket and clip that the stock curly que and rubber line do, but not until you round off one of the six hex points. When you take off your stock line look and you will see what I mean.
After that, replaced trans fluid and differential fluid. Flushed the clutch line with "Super Blue" fluid. Mainly we did this because it was easy to see when clean fluid was coming out.
I have pics on my phone but its too late to be logging on the computer. I will do that tomorrow.
Last edited by Chiburbian; 05-24-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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05-21-2013 | 01:05 PM
#111
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
No sense adding pictures when the rest is a mess.
I posted the following to a thread in at MSextra.com but here is what I am going through:
What are you all doing in regards to grounding the megasquirt. Are you relying on only the stock ground or are you connecting all the possible grounds on the megasquirt to an engine ground?
Up until now, I was using only the stock ECU ground thinking that if it was good enough for stock ecu, it would be good enough for megasquirt. If I were to connect all the unused grounds and solder them to a tie point that connects to a large gauge wire (12awg?) and run that single wire to an engine ground, would that be different electrically to multiple individual wires run all the way to a tie point on the engine? What point are you using for engine ground?
I posted the following to a thread in at MSextra.com but here is what I am going through:
I have been having a problem lately that seems to come when it gets hot outside, meaning 80 degree plus.
I haven't worked out AC issues yet, and the load from the AC might have something to do with this because the problems seem to happen shortly after I turn on the AC and start trying to adjust the VE, which I may be doing wrong but anyhow... But then again, I only get the itch to dink with that pending issue when it's hot outside. I just figued I would mention it.
Anyhow, I have a MS3x with knock, on board clock, and mapdaddy.
I have been tuning successfully for days with both real time barometric data and MAP from the mapdaddy. This afternoon during a drive in 87 degree heat, I noticed my tuningap starting to turn blue in VEanalyze live, where for the most part the map had been getting very slightly red. This followed by bogs on the highway, and I couldn't even maintain speed at 60mph where I had earlier been traveling much faster.
I pulled over , turned my engine off and checked my gauges and noticed that my barometer was locked at 105kpa and my MAP with engine off was fluctuating from about 116kpa and 122kpa.
I attempted to re-calibrate the sensors but they never changed after burning.
I had left my SD card at home on accident unfortunately and was not sure how long my laptop would last in the heat so I wasn't logging to hard drive. (the cheap laptop I got as a tuning laptop tends to shut itself down when it gets too hot).
UPDATE
The barometric pressure in my area tends to stick at 100 plus or minus 2.
I did attempt to recalibrate the map/baro. I want to say that in the past going to the page where you pick where your second map or baro comes in (General?) and changing something, burning it, then switching it back and burning it again got everything working. Unfortunately this thought didn't come to me in the heat earlier.
UPDATE
It will be going onto the stim tonight to test.
This morning before work I decided to screw around with it. I installed the megasquirt back in the car and had the same problem. With the correct calibrations, barometric was 105 (and is effected by adjusting max kpa setting in General Settings page), and the MAP was fluctuating somewhere between 118 and 125. Once again, ambient SHOULD be somewhere around 100kpa.
I then reflashed the firmware on the MS3 and reloaded my msq, and calibrated my sensors. That didn't fix the problem. The other day I added a battery voltage gauge to my tunerstudio dashboard to keep an eye on what that was doing. Sure enough, at idle I was indicating 16.6 volts. I tried manually adjusting the battery calibration page to match my multimeter, but that didn't effect my AFR or MAP to bring it in line with what it should be. I will likely switch it back tonight.
As it stands, I don't know if it is a car/ground/power problem or a problem internal to the MS so it will be going to a known good stim tonight for testing.
I am leaning towards an electrical problem because all my problems seem tied to electrical activity. Even when it was running well, the current draw from raising or lowering the windows would cause the idle to be effected. When the A/C powers up, it draws more current from the alternator. When the fans turn on, it draws more current...
Also, the MS was cool to the touch this morning when I started and ambient temperature was in the high sixties. Not warm enough to give me pause.
[UBack to Miata specific stuff[/U]I haven't worked out AC issues yet, and the load from the AC might have something to do with this because the problems seem to happen shortly after I turn on the AC and start trying to adjust the VE, which I may be doing wrong but anyhow... But then again, I only get the itch to dink with that pending issue when it's hot outside. I just figued I would mention it.
Anyhow, I have a MS3x with knock, on board clock, and mapdaddy.
I have been tuning successfully for days with both real time barometric data and MAP from the mapdaddy. This afternoon during a drive in 87 degree heat, I noticed my tuningap starting to turn blue in VEanalyze live, where for the most part the map had been getting very slightly red. This followed by bogs on the highway, and I couldn't even maintain speed at 60mph where I had earlier been traveling much faster.
I pulled over , turned my engine off and checked my gauges and noticed that my barometer was locked at 105kpa and my MAP with engine off was fluctuating from about 116kpa and 122kpa.
I attempted to re-calibrate the sensors but they never changed after burning.
I had left my SD card at home on accident unfortunately and was not sure how long my laptop would last in the heat so I wasn't logging to hard drive. (the cheap laptop I got as a tuning laptop tends to shut itself down when it gets too hot).
UPDATE
The barometric pressure in my area tends to stick at 100 plus or minus 2.
I did attempt to recalibrate the map/baro. I want to say that in the past going to the page where you pick where your second map or baro comes in (General?) and changing something, burning it, then switching it back and burning it again got everything working. Unfortunately this thought didn't come to me in the heat earlier.
UPDATE
It will be going onto the stim tonight to test.
This morning before work I decided to screw around with it. I installed the megasquirt back in the car and had the same problem. With the correct calibrations, barometric was 105 (and is effected by adjusting max kpa setting in General Settings page), and the MAP was fluctuating somewhere between 118 and 125. Once again, ambient SHOULD be somewhere around 100kpa.
I then reflashed the firmware on the MS3 and reloaded my msq, and calibrated my sensors. That didn't fix the problem. The other day I added a battery voltage gauge to my tunerstudio dashboard to keep an eye on what that was doing. Sure enough, at idle I was indicating 16.6 volts. I tried manually adjusting the battery calibration page to match my multimeter, but that didn't effect my AFR or MAP to bring it in line with what it should be. I will likely switch it back tonight.
As it stands, I don't know if it is a car/ground/power problem or a problem internal to the MS so it will be going to a known good stim tonight for testing.
I am leaning towards an electrical problem because all my problems seem tied to electrical activity. Even when it was running well, the current draw from raising or lowering the windows would cause the idle to be effected. When the A/C powers up, it draws more current from the alternator. When the fans turn on, it draws more current...
Also, the MS was cool to the touch this morning when I started and ambient temperature was in the high sixties. Not warm enough to give me pause.
What are you all doing in regards to grounding the megasquirt. Are you relying on only the stock ground or are you connecting all the possible grounds on the megasquirt to an engine ground?
Up until now, I was using only the stock ECU ground thinking that if it was good enough for stock ecu, it would be good enough for megasquirt. If I were to connect all the unused grounds and solder them to a tie point that connects to a large gauge wire (12awg?) and run that single wire to an engine ground, would that be different electrically to multiple individual wires run all the way to a tie point on the engine? What point are you using for engine ground?
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05-21-2013 | 09:48 PM
#112
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Put it on stim.
Disconnected mapdaddy from JS5 and tested lead to ground. Read 1v.
The fluctuating map signal persisted though, so I removed the mapdaddy entirely from the megasquirt. I then connected it to the computer and tested again.
Interestingly, I got 400 something kpa. This is interesting to me, because unless the map sensor is measuring a DROP from 5volts, I should be getting 0kpa or whatever the minimum is at 0 volts correct?
Where could my 5 volts be coming from? I am going to consult the megasquirt schematic, but if you have a quick and easy thing for me to check I would appreciate it.
Disconnected mapdaddy from JS5 and tested lead to ground. Read 1v.
The fluctuating map signal persisted though, so I removed the mapdaddy entirely from the megasquirt. I then connected it to the computer and tested again.
Interestingly, I got 400 something kpa. This is interesting to me, because unless the map sensor is measuring a DROP from 5volts, I should be getting 0kpa or whatever the minimum is at 0 volts correct?
Where could my 5 volts be coming from? I am going to consult the megasquirt schematic, but if you have a quick and easy thing for me to check I would appreciate it.
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05-21-2013 | 11:37 PM
#113
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Reposting from MSextra:
Ok, since I still had my original map sensor sitting around, I did a dry fit to see how it would turn out.
None of the map sensor pre-sets (it is marked 4250) gave me any result anywhere near what I know is atmospheric pressure (100kpa'ish), so I set the kpa value of 0kpa to 0 volts, and kpa of 5 volts to 5kpa, and it gave me a result of .7 volts.
I am thinking that I have some serious power issues going on here. Where do I start?
UPDATE: I checked out the following on U2 (MAP sensor board area).
Pin 1 - Verified 1k ohm to cpu header.
Pin 2 - Verified ground
Pin 3 - Verified 5v from cpu
I am unclear as to what function pins 4-6 perform and how to verify they work properly.
I am also not sure how to test C3 or C2.
What is next?
Ok, since I still had my original map sensor sitting around, I did a dry fit to see how it would turn out.
None of the map sensor pre-sets (it is marked 4250) gave me any result anywhere near what I know is atmospheric pressure (100kpa'ish), so I set the kpa value of 0kpa to 0 volts, and kpa of 5 volts to 5kpa, and it gave me a result of .7 volts.
I am thinking that I have some serious power issues going on here. Where do I start?
UPDATE: I checked out the following on U2 (MAP sensor board area).
Pin 1 - Verified 1k ohm to cpu header.
Pin 2 - Verified ground
Pin 3 - Verified 5v from cpu
I am unclear as to what function pins 4-6 perform and how to verify they work properly.
I am also not sure how to test C3 or C2.
What is next?
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05-24-2013 | 01:56 PM
#114
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
After working with the guys over at MSextra.com, we figured out that it was a bad/intermittant 5v to the CPU that was causing the problem. I pulled the MS3 apart and found that I hadn't seated one of the riser boards quite enough. Once I fixed that, not only did I get proper Map and Barometer, but I no longer had to offset my oxygen sensor values.
Tune was like crap for a couple days, but it is getting better.
I have two remaining problems that are at the top of my list, and one of them might not be a problem.
First, I notice that my VE numbers are higher than most of the maps I have seen. I idle at 13.5/1 with my VE at about 50-55. (even after warm up) My injectors are set to 11.6... What else could affect those numbers to be throwing them high? Once I get the VE numbers correct for AFR though, the car runs fine. The trouble is getting the VE map up to near the correct values so that VE analyze can fine tune it. I have pissed off a lot of people on the road the past couple days because I would think my map was getting good, but then I step on the gas and my car dies. I am either going too rich or too lean... I will post MSQ and log when it happens again. So far I think I may have it under control.
Second, I am currently using the VVT settings from Y8s maybe? My angles are 274-320 (or so, off the top of my head). However, when I drive, my indicated VE angle varies off of 0 degrees. It swings about 30'ish degrees. Is this normal? I thought it would swing from 274-320'ish...
When I initially tried to set up my VVT I tried setting the duty cycle to 1 and read the value, but nothing on my gauges seemed to change. What gauge should I be reading?
As it stands, I am hoping to start the actual turbo kit install Jun 15-23.
Tune was like crap for a couple days, but it is getting better.
I have two remaining problems that are at the top of my list, and one of them might not be a problem.
First, I notice that my VE numbers are higher than most of the maps I have seen. I idle at 13.5/1 with my VE at about 50-55. (even after warm up) My injectors are set to 11.6... What else could affect those numbers to be throwing them high? Once I get the VE numbers correct for AFR though, the car runs fine. The trouble is getting the VE map up to near the correct values so that VE analyze can fine tune it. I have pissed off a lot of people on the road the past couple days because I would think my map was getting good, but then I step on the gas and my car dies. I am either going too rich or too lean... I will post MSQ and log when it happens again. So far I think I may have it under control.
Second, I am currently using the VVT settings from Y8s maybe? My angles are 274-320 (or so, off the top of my head). However, when I drive, my indicated VE angle varies off of 0 degrees. It swings about 30'ish degrees. Is this normal? I thought it would swing from 274-320'ish...
When I initially tried to set up my VVT I tried setting the duty cycle to 1 and read the value, but nothing on my gauges seemed to change. What gauge should I be reading?
As it stands, I am hoping to start the actual turbo kit install Jun 15-23.
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05-25-2013 | 10:22 PM
#115
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
I put about 250 miles on it since the last update. Clutch is theoretically fully broken in. I don't see the need to beat on it though.
I am feeling like my tune is starting to come around. I have a couple problems that I still need to work out.
First, I am having an issue where I go lean on acceleration causing me to lose power and have to close the throttle to get back to a "Fuel Load%" that works.
My tune is attached below:
I am trying to figure out how to attach my log but it is too big at the moment. (best I can do is dropbox public folder: http://db.tt/5LdRKVBI )
The next problem I have is related to Manifold Air Temperature. I have been lucky that the last several days it has been cool, so my current VE map has been tuned with a MAT of approximately 86° Fahrenheit. However, when it starts to get warm (120° F indicated for example) I have a problem where the whole VE map is too lean and VEAL starts to add fuel all over the place. This isn't a problem as long as the air stays that temperature, but the next morning when the air is cooler the ECU ends up taking all that stuff back out. I am trying to stop that cycle of madness. I was told there is some MAT correction page, but I don't know what I am looking for. I tried opening up "MAT air density" but it seemed that in order to get my AFRs to go down (more rich) I had to change the value showing that air had actually got MORE dense as it got hotter. That is obviously not true. What is the setting I should be changing? Can some people here post up an ".msqpart" for the correct adjustment and also what it's called?
I am feeling like my tune is starting to come around. I have a couple problems that I still need to work out.
First, I am having an issue where I go lean on acceleration causing me to lose power and have to close the throttle to get back to a "Fuel Load%" that works.
My tune is attached below:
I am trying to figure out how to attach my log but it is too big at the moment. (best I can do is dropbox public folder: http://db.tt/5LdRKVBI )
The next problem I have is related to Manifold Air Temperature. I have been lucky that the last several days it has been cool, so my current VE map has been tuned with a MAT of approximately 86° Fahrenheit. However, when it starts to get warm (120° F indicated for example) I have a problem where the whole VE map is too lean and VEAL starts to add fuel all over the place. This isn't a problem as long as the air stays that temperature, but the next morning when the air is cooler the ECU ends up taking all that stuff back out. I am trying to stop that cycle of madness. I was told there is some MAT correction page, but I don't know what I am looking for. I tried opening up "MAT air density" but it seemed that in order to get my AFRs to go down (more rich) I had to change the value showing that air had actually got MORE dense as it got hotter. That is obviously not true. What is the setting I should be changing? Can some people here post up an ".msqpart" for the correct adjustment and also what it's called?
Last edited by Chiburbian; 05-25-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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05-27-2013 | 03:09 PM
#116
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
So I think my MAT issue has been solved.
First... This
Don't do that.
My airbox was getting heatsoaked which was heatsoaking my GM AIT Sensor. I took the sensor out of the airbox and zip-tied it using a cut up rag as insulator to another plastic mounting point near the intake horn. Air intake temperatures normalized to a rough maximum of 106 degrees at idle with the hood closed and a reasonable 80s or so while driving.
Obviously I have the problem of my entire map being based on a heat soaked AIT at an indicated 86 degrees. Who knows what actual air temperature was during this drive. I will post my most recent MSQ and a log of some issues I am having when I get home from work tonight.
First... This
Don't do that.
My airbox was getting heatsoaked which was heatsoaking my GM AIT Sensor. I took the sensor out of the airbox and zip-tied it using a cut up rag as insulator to another plastic mounting point near the intake horn. Air intake temperatures normalized to a rough maximum of 106 degrees at idle with the hood closed and a reasonable 80s or so while driving.
Obviously I have the problem of my entire map being based on a heat soaked AIT at an indicated 86 degrees. Who knows what actual air temperature was during this drive. I will post my most recent MSQ and a log of some issues I am having when I get home from work tonight.
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06-01-2013 | 08:04 AM
#117
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
I have been having some problems with leaning out unpredictably when there was a high electical load on the car. For example when the windows were raised or lowered, when the headlights were turned on, when any of the fans turned on, and when the A/C was running. I wasn't sure if it was a VE map problem or where the problem was originating.
In order to get more megasquirt specific eyeballs on it, I posted a thread in the megasquirt portion of the forum, here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...2/#post1017157
This is my most recent post regarding my electrical issues, and I am cross posting it to keep this thread up to date:
I will update both threads with what I find out.
In order to get more megasquirt specific eyeballs on it, I posted a thread in the megasquirt portion of the forum, here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...2/#post1017157
This is my most recent post regarding my electrical issues, and I am cross posting it to keep this thread up to date:
So this is what I found. I had paper notes on my build that I couldn't find, so I pulled my jumper harness and reverse engineered the DB25 that I had installed to handle stuff like boost solenoid, wideband in, etc. I created a spreadsheet specifically for that connector to keep it straight.
Turns out I had run all five "good engine ground" lines to the DB25 from the 3x, but only two on the main connector. From there, NONE of the "Engine Ground" wires made it to the engine. The only "engine ground" connections I was using (through the stock harness) were ECM ground, PCM ground(?), and fuel injector ground (aha!?)
Since I was sharing grounds with the stock computer and I don't know how good the connections are, this seems like a good candidate for being the cause of my problems. If nothing else, it is the way it should have been done from the start I imagine.
While I am at it, I plan on running the wires for sequential ignition and pigtailing them and also bringing the wires through for the boost solenoid, the boost sensor, and oil temperature sensor. I will also be wrapping them and placing them in convoluted tubing to make it pretty.
Turns out I had run all five "good engine ground" lines to the DB25 from the 3x, but only two on the main connector. From there, NONE of the "Engine Ground" wires made it to the engine. The only "engine ground" connections I was using (through the stock harness) were ECM ground, PCM ground(?), and fuel injector ground (aha!?)
Since I was sharing grounds with the stock computer and I don't know how good the connections are, this seems like a good candidate for being the cause of my problems. If nothing else, it is the way it should have been done from the start I imagine.
While I am at it, I plan on running the wires for sequential ignition and pigtailing them and also bringing the wires through for the boost solenoid, the boost sensor, and oil temperature sensor. I will also be wrapping them and placing them in convoluted tubing to make it pretty.
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06-02-2013 | 10:20 PM
#118
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Problem solved! It had something to do with grounds.
I just bit the bullet and routed dedicated ground wires for the gauges (wideband only for now) and the ecu. Details in the thread I linked in the previous post if you are interested. For posterity's sake, these are the ground points I used:
Front:
Rear:
I also put in quick disconnects for my EBC solenoid and wrapped everything up nice and neat with split convoluted tubing. Not my favorite, but it does look cleaner than random wires everywhere. I will try and take a pic tomorrow and post it here.
A couple things are still pending. I got the alternator control board from Braineack and I would like to install that at some point in the near future, and for some reason PWM speed sensors can't be used on EGO2. I thought I read somewhere that you could use that input for that type of speed sensor, but whatever. I guess I just have to switch it to another input on the MS3x at some point in the near future.
Another problem is my launch control isn't working. In the past I have set it at a really low RPM and tested it just to make sure it worked. For some reason it's not working anymore. It could be a wire I switched for some reason while adjusting my harness this last time, or it could have something to do with my flyin'miata clutch switch blockoff plate thingy. (it allows you to start the car without putting the clutch in).
I am considering pulling it and putting some sort of a switch inline that accomplishes the same thing (but I only leave switched when the car is first started), because that plate also disables the cruise control disable signal. I learned that the hard way the other day while cruising home from work. Habit is that I push in the clutch to turn off the cruise control. Engine kept racing and I panicked and turned off the ignition switch while going 60 on the highway. Freaked me the hell out.
At this point though, I am tired of stuffing myself under my dashboard so i'll just live with it for the time being.
If everything goes well though, I hope to fix my issues and install the 460cc injectors this weekend.
Is there a gasket I need to get on order?
I just bit the bullet and routed dedicated ground wires for the gauges (wideband only for now) and the ecu. Details in the thread I linked in the previous post if you are interested. For posterity's sake, these are the ground points I used:
Front:
Rear:
I also put in quick disconnects for my EBC solenoid and wrapped everything up nice and neat with split convoluted tubing. Not my favorite, but it does look cleaner than random wires everywhere. I will try and take a pic tomorrow and post it here.
A couple things are still pending. I got the alternator control board from Braineack and I would like to install that at some point in the near future, and for some reason PWM speed sensors can't be used on EGO2. I thought I read somewhere that you could use that input for that type of speed sensor, but whatever. I guess I just have to switch it to another input on the MS3x at some point in the near future.
Another problem is my launch control isn't working. In the past I have set it at a really low RPM and tested it just to make sure it worked. For some reason it's not working anymore. It could be a wire I switched for some reason while adjusting my harness this last time, or it could have something to do with my flyin'miata clutch switch blockoff plate thingy. (it allows you to start the car without putting the clutch in).
I am considering pulling it and putting some sort of a switch inline that accomplishes the same thing (but I only leave switched when the car is first started), because that plate also disables the cruise control disable signal. I learned that the hard way the other day while cruising home from work. Habit is that I push in the clutch to turn off the cruise control. Engine kept racing and I panicked and turned off the ignition switch while going 60 on the highway. Freaked me the hell out.
At this point though, I am tired of stuffing myself under my dashboard so i'll just live with it for the time being.
If everything goes well though, I hope to fix my issues and install the 460cc injectors this weekend.
Is there a gasket I need to get on order?
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06-03-2013 | 01:00 PM
#119
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Well that was quick.
Car wouldn't start this morning. "Sync" was failing intermittently. Mind you, it was colder than it has since I have had my car running and I MAY have left my interior light on overnight which would account for a low battery and slow cranking, but I didn't notice it being any slower than normal.
I was hearing a relay start and stop while cranking, and it seemed to correspond to my fuel pump. I am guessing that it was the fuel pump relay stopping power to the pump when I lost sync.
No logs or anything because I had to be at work at 5am and I didn't feel like troubleshooting at 4am in the morning. I didn't want to **** off my neighbors.
The following is just a reflective statement as to my state of mind:
I understand that every problem I solve is just part of the process, a part of the learning that makes me better at troubleshooting and tuning and gives me all the skills that I need to continue the process of turbocharging my car.
However, sometimes I just want to stop learning for a while and just enjoy driving the darn thing. I have spent the last month or so with the radio off, A/C off, listening to every variation as to the sound of the engine. It seems like I have gone through every combination of engine speed and load and then when it appears I made a mistake or I made an unexpected step backwards, I start over again.
So, now that I have vented - here is what I have to do. I have to first figure out why my car didn't start this morning. I will pick up a can of starter fluid on the way home tonight and put my car on the charger for a bit before touching it. I may pull the harness again and figure out why launch control and my VSS isn't working in the time it takes to give the battery a little extra juice.
I need to figure out if I was flooding out, or just not injecting enough gasoline to start. It did start somewhat hard yesterday when I first put the computer back in after fixing my ground problems.
Car wouldn't start this morning. "Sync" was failing intermittently. Mind you, it was colder than it has since I have had my car running and I MAY have left my interior light on overnight which would account for a low battery and slow cranking, but I didn't notice it being any slower than normal.
I was hearing a relay start and stop while cranking, and it seemed to correspond to my fuel pump. I am guessing that it was the fuel pump relay stopping power to the pump when I lost sync.
No logs or anything because I had to be at work at 5am and I didn't feel like troubleshooting at 4am in the morning. I didn't want to **** off my neighbors.
The following is just a reflective statement as to my state of mind:
I understand that every problem I solve is just part of the process, a part of the learning that makes me better at troubleshooting and tuning and gives me all the skills that I need to continue the process of turbocharging my car.
However, sometimes I just want to stop learning for a while and just enjoy driving the darn thing. I have spent the last month or so with the radio off, A/C off, listening to every variation as to the sound of the engine. It seems like I have gone through every combination of engine speed and load and then when it appears I made a mistake or I made an unexpected step backwards, I start over again.
So, now that I have vented - here is what I have to do. I have to first figure out why my car didn't start this morning. I will pick up a can of starter fluid on the way home tonight and put my car on the charger for a bit before touching it. I may pull the harness again and figure out why launch control and my VSS isn't working in the time it takes to give the battery a little extra juice.
I need to figure out if I was flooding out, or just not injecting enough gasoline to start. It did start somewhat hard yesterday when I first put the computer back in after fixing my ground problems.
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06-04-2013 | 10:52 AM
#120
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Total Cats: 203
From: Loganville, GA
Period of frustration has ended - for now.
When I got home the car fired right up. This morning all it took was a little adjustment to my cranking curve and everything worked well.
Also while I was at it I started messing with Accell Enrichment. What are you all using for your taper?
Does "EAE" depend on the settings for time based AE or is it a completely separate method of accell enrichment?
When I got home the car fired right up. This morning all it took was a little adjustment to my cranking curve and everything worked well.
Also while I was at it I started messing with Accell Enrichment. What are you all using for your taper?
Does "EAE" depend on the settings for time based AE or is it a completely separate method of accell enrichment?
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