grats on the accidental startup! Your an inspiration to us all

Any update on the oil pressure problem?

I just finished install of my FMII kit and DIYPNP and am experiencing the same problem on my '90. The gauge is reading no pressure but if I take the oil feed line off the turbo I have oil flowing.

Thanks, I'll take the compliment for the first 32 pages, anything after with tuning wiring I'd ignore due to my own ignorance at it.


Small update on oil pressure, I got the gauge to move a little. It still isn't making the huge jump in oil pressure like it was originally but it is reading some pressure.

So this makes me concerned that maybe my oil pump relay is bad? I have an extra from the 1.6 motor that I may pull just for the process of elimination.

I replaced the oil gauge receiver(?) in the instrument panel and replaced it with the original one in the car(car came with 2 instrument panels)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397351465

Pulled the oil pump relay wire and the wire slipped out of the cable sheathing, that was fault #1.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397351465

Found a spare connector off the old harness and soldered on a new wire and ran it from the relay to the instrument panel, checked for continuity and it is fine.

Also wire brushed the relay terminal to pull off any corrosion.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397351465

I'll have a video done uploading in just a few showing the engine starting up and where the oil pressure gauge is sitting while running.

Not sure why it isn't responding very well. It is moving on its own accord, it just isn't show +60 oil pressure like normal. Not sure HOW the relay could have been damaged since it was working fine prior to it being stolen and after, maybe 5 months of sitting there did something to it? I'm not sure.

I don't want to replace the relay since it seems like it will be a total BITCH to remove.

Also after playing with the new TPS wires I finally got 5v and ground in the right place so that it is reading positive input on the throttle rather than negative.

When in Tunerstudio I calibrated the low TPS and it came out at around 500. When the engine is running it seems to want to stall when the throttle is pushed down though, so I'm not sure what other setting I need to adjust to make throttle input smoother.

Here is the video I need to adjust the idle settings, but I still haven't researched what settings are needed.




Also for those who want to test if their oil gauge actually works or not Revlimiter has a good guide on checking.

I used a D-cell battery with a couple wires to test mine.

http://revlimiter.net/blog/2014/03/m...-real-vs-fake/

So did yours test out ok or not?

If it did, I'd bypass the relay with 12v or 5v or whatever it takes and see if it reads better. If that doesn't work, don't run the engine any more.

Did you check your oil level? KISS, check the easy stuff first.

I didn't test the big relay on the engine block but the gauge relay works perfectly.

I'm not sure how one would bypass the relay on the block...I need to read up on that.

Oil level is solid, pulled the turbo oil feed again and it is still puking oil consistently.

I ran the wire directly from the engine to the gauge, so it makes me wonder if the pin contact with the instrument paper isn't solid. Do you think maybe putting a ring terminal on the 5v connection to the gauge would be more consistent?

I agree, the engine won't be started until I can get starter oil pressure priming running properly.

For god's sake stop now. Don't run your engine without proper oil pressure. If you get oil puking out the turbo oil feed it doesn't mean that the oil pressure is good and you are lubricating other parts of the engine.

If you gauge has any movement it's fine. I'm 99% sure that the problem is in your oil pump losing its prime.

Sorry if I'm not up to speed but do you still have the oil pressure "switch" instead of an actual gauge? Any room for an aftermarket pressure gauge? Also, what oil filter do you have? Some don't utilize an anti drain back flap so you'll see a loss in pressure for the first few seconds of running as the oil pump fills the system back up.

Not familiar with the switch. I have the larger wix filter I bought from TSE. The gauge is a genuine working 90-93 and I tested it so it isn't bad.

Weird that it would lose its prime like this though right? I'm going to try a direct wire of the gauge to the 5v and see if that gives me a better reading.

This is so annoying.

The earlier Miata had an oil pressure switch. It would read nothing or perfect oil pressure. It's been called an idiot gauge with only two possible positions. I believe it's a big grey sending unit.

And Wix filters do have anti drain back flaps. Where is the pump from again?

Hmm I'll check it out.

Not sure who the pump is from but it has billet gears.

lower TPS value of 500 sounds odd - mine is at 120 or something like that, high is at 760...

The stumble when you push the throttle could be related to this or the AE settings are of or your VEtable needs a lot of tuning or... well at least 10 other things... ;-)

Except that it's the other way around:noob:

Early miata had the full sweep gauge that is actually useful, the 95+ (or whatever the switchpoint was) had the yay or doom gauge.

The big grey sender is the proper sender. The idiot gauge sender is a small thing.

They certainly made the oil relay hard to remove once the engine is in. it would be easy but my wrench is too long so it hits the relay, and being right behind the oil filter I can't get the angle I need.

So accounting for that, tomorrow I'll drain the oil, remove the filter, and replace the relay with the 1.6 motor's relay. If that doesn't do it, I read you can use a vacuum pump and tap a barb into a cheap oil filter and prime it that way.

I tried priming it by hooking my shop vac up to the turbo oil feed line, but since I was already getting oil flowing there, it didn't really do anything. Most people I've seen who have had problems aren't actually getting any oil to the turbo oil feed line, they can't get any oil to move through the system at all, so I'm hoping replacing the relay will be the final solution.

Getting awfully frustrated with this, but I've done the process of elimination on everything BUT the relay itself, so god willing, that is the fault in the system. I really don't want to drop the oil pan and check the oil pump itself.

Shoot some compressed air into the sender with the key on, it should make the gauge jump. I could probably try it on mine tomorrow if you want a comparison.

Good catch. You'd think they wouldn't take steps backwards with something like that. I like the "yay or doom" description better too.

I tries this and got no movement.

I also read that if you disconnect the sender unit and turn the key to the ON position, the gauge should read max pressure. This is due to the sender being grounded at 0 pressure.

When I tried this my needle did not move at all. Does that indicate a wiring problem up stream?

Sounds like wiring. Did you check all of your grounds and make sure everything is plugged in correctly? I accidentally mixed up the sensor connector with the starter connector once. Good times.

Get a mechanical gauge and put it on the pressure sender port on the block. Or take the OPG out of the gauge cluster and check it like shown in the revlimiter link. Or both.

I skipped the replies after you posted the video, but considering i have a similar setup and mine did the EXACT same thing on the first start, i think i can tell you how to fix it.

For me it was the idle valve frequency. The NB idle valve operates at a different frequency, mine seemed happiest around ~57 but it can vary so play with it yourself. Also make sure your idle screw is adjusted as well so that you are not fighting that.

Of course before you adjust any of this i'd check for vac leaks after the throttle body, carb cleaner works well for this. Spray around where you suspect the leaks, if the RPM increases obviously, than you have a leak there. Also check all your vac lines, and make sure any unused ones are properly capped off, etc :)

Not that it helps you but I solved my no oil pressure problem.

My problem was caused by a moment of stupidity. I had unplugged several plugs when removing the A/C boxes behind the glove box and simply forgot to plug one back in. The one I forgot happened to be the gauge cluster harness.

:facepalm:

/threadjack

Car is looking fantastic! I've been following it for awhile and check in daily for updates. Keep up the good work and good luck!

You shouldn't have to prime anything. I think you missed a step in putting those gauge faces on.

From Adam's site on his installation service:

"Lastly, I install the speedometer needle. YOU MUST INSTALL THE REST OF THE NEEDLES. The other four gauges need to have their needles calibrated while attached to your running car. I cannot do this without having your car to sit in. The only one that can be installed and calibrated is the speedometer (both on the NA and NB). "

Since you're in a "check all the things!" mode anyway...

Check this first:

Miata Oil Gauge – Real vs Fake — revlimiter.net

Your signal wire is the one you just fixed going to the relay.

That gives your gauge a clean bill of health (or tells you where the problem is).

Next on the line is the relay itself. Since you're a perfectionist, you can run (temporarily) a pressure tester where the oil pressure gauge is at, and check the pressure there. If you get good pressure there, then it's the relay.

(And, you know where your oil pressure is at idle, which helps you set that gauge... which brings us to the final bit)

You changed your gauge faces, and pressed your oil pressure needle back on when you weren't supposed to. (maybe?)

Without an end-stop, that motor will wind back further than the "zero point".

Adam's instructions state to start the motor up and place the needle right about where your oil pressure used to set.

Pull the needle, start the car, set the needle (loosely) where you used to see your oil pressure. Shut the car off, see if the needle drops back to zero.

Whoever put the relay on the block did so with the strength of thor. Nothing I do can make it budge on the block...ever get so angry wrenching you almost throw your wrench at the car itself? Yeah.

It's a pipe thread. You can temp pull the filter, and drop the alternator out of the way. Probably needs one good tap with a hammer.

There's wrench flats on the front and back of it, might have to look under the rubber.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397437098

Yup and the wrench spot on the front is useless. The housing was separated from the inner housing so only the shell turns.

And the real winner winner chicken dinner is corrosion in combination with RED LOCTITE on the threads. seriously, why red? Blue maybe I could understand but red???

I literally can not get at an angle to get a 17 mm wrench on the back on the unit. and when you do, the oil filter housing is in the way so if you try to turn it you risk stripping the threads due to the wrench not being fully seated on the flats.

I need to take a breather. My arm looks like it got caught in the Saw movie trap.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397437597

That feeling when something hard to remove finally pops loose

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397441180

God that was gratifying.

I wish I could say I was to blame for how thrashed this thing was but it was only slightly better than this when I started. You can see a little of the red loctite on the threads

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397441180

Here is where the housing was separated from the inner housing. Not sure how they did that one.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397441180

Figured I'd add a video as to why the relay didn't work. I was interested in what the internals look like since I hate not knowing how it works, so I bent the housing off the rest of the way and took it apart.

If you can pull the housing off, yours doesn't work. There is a wire connected to the connector on the outside of the unit, which is connected to the relay on the inside. MY wire was not connected, it had broken off at the solder point.

When it detects pressure, it moves the switch, which supplies the signal in pressure change.

I know that feeling all too well. Was pretty much at that point with my car tonight. Just had to walk away for now. It wins this time.

I wish I had seen this earlier in the weekend as I could have saved you some time. Back when I got a real gauge and sender for my 95 NA back in the day, first sender I pulled in the junkyard had the same failure mode. Not sure why Mazda put those flats on the face, I always thought that was stupid.

Glad you found it AND you had a spare :bigtu:

Well then I have someone to blame for not informing me!:rofl:

No it was good to do everything to eliminate faults in the system.

I refilled the oil and put the filter back on. While I had the car apart I also took the throttle body off and sealed it better with RTV black gasket maker, hopefully that is where the air leak is from.

Tried to pressurize the system a little by blowing some pressurized air into the oil feed line. I heard a lot of gurgles in the system, who knows if they were beneficial gurgles.

Started to crank it a little, but my battery was pretty tired from a full days effort and I had forgotten to put the battery tender on. So after a couple hours of charging to get a better starter crank, we'll try it then.

I'm starting to think that maybe it is an issue with the revlimiter gauges I put on. I can't seem to align the needle so it falls back to the right position when off. When lightly pushed on at 0 psi, it doesn't respond positively to cranking. Need to see how I can get alignment perfect before I try cranking again.

Seeing as how you seem to have 2 of everything, do you have an untouched factory gauge to play with?

Oh just plug in the good sender and crank it.

You're supposed to leave the needle off until it's running/warmed up, then place the needle at either the 60 mark (running cold) or just above the 20 mark (running warm). All this is very, very ISH, which is why it's important to know where your oil pressure typically sits at before you mess with the gauges.

You probably want to know exactly where the oil pressure is at so you can set the needle properly.

Setup a pressure tester with the engine cold.

Start engine. Read Pressure.

Immediately shut down engine.

Remove pressure tester, put pressure sender back on, and connect.

Start Engine. Grab Oil pressure gauge needle. Place lightly where you read the pressure at on the sender.

Let engine run until it's warmed up. Pressure should drop accordingly as the oil thins out, and warmup enrichment/idle ends.

If it does that, you're good to go.

If it doesn't do that, you need to pull the cluster, disconnect the wiring, find the pressure sender wire that feeds the gauge, and check it for continuity between there, and the oil pressure sender tab.

If it has continuity, then start worrying about the gauge. You can test it with a 12V power supply, but you need to get it out to do that. I would remove Adam's gauge faces prior to seriously fucking with it.

Amazeballs work, and not to be the dick to come in here and shit on any of it, but you keep referring to the oil pressure sensor as a relay. The terms are not interchangeable.

C

If it's of concern to you at all, i'd get an actual oil pressure gauge on the thing and start it. Should not cost you must to pick up a cheapo one and plumb it in temporarily.

No offense taken, thanks for the clarification Chris. If it isn't obvious by now, I'm making this up & learning from scratch as I go, so there are bound to be errors!

I think that is my next step. Just buy a oil pressure gauge at autozone and hook it up and adjust my real oil gauge based off the accurate information. I'd rather have it sitting in the bag next to the car just in case I don't get any response from the gauge.

I know I'm developing oil pressure. The oil filter was filled with oil, all lines were filled with oil, I just want to know how MUCH or LITTLE I have in the system.

Also I'm having another thought on possible vacuum leaks. The EGR block off plates on the back of the intake manifold, to my memory, no longer have RTV between them and the I.M. after they were sandblasted and powdercoated. They look flush, but I'll have to squirt some more RTV on the block-off plates tonight when I drive back down.

FWIW, the $20 oil pressure test kit from Harbor Freight works great. Just went through something similar (and a slight panic) when my aftermarket gauge sender took a crap.

I should mention with the proper gasket you shouldn't NEED RTV, especially with something like the throttle body. I mean, heaven forbid you get a new gasket :giggle: Not like its coming off now though :rofl:

Do you recommend the tester rather than a aftermarket gauge?


They essentially do the same thing ;) This way, if the bolts fall out, I know it isn't going anywhere!

I'm at the point where I will do anything to spend no more money on the car. I'd rather start putting the money towards a down payment on a house.

OK a little progress tonight. I bought a shitty napa mechanical gauge to do an independent test of the oil system. Yanked the sensor off the block and installed it.

First I decided to try to bleed some of the air out of the lines. I ripped some clear tubing off my brake bleeder and taped it to the vacuum as well as I could. Then I jammed it in the hole as well as I could and bled until the majority of the air came out. I did this on the sensor bung and the turbo oil feed line.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397535470

Then I hooked up the gauge and cranked for around 10-15 seconds. I saw around 30 psi on the gauge, but I never trust the shitty hard line compression brass fittings on these things(mostly talking about plumbing experiences).

Soooo making progress at least! I'm hoping that it is just a minor leak in the hard line and having not started the motor to really get some pressure in the line.

Is it normal, when you stop cranking the motor, for pressure to bleed off immediately?

Just trying to think what else I can try here. Maybe replace the hard line with clear tubing? and use a hose clamp to clamp it down?

So 30 psi is a low reading of what the motor is actually developing I hope. I will say I saw a much quicker response pressure wise after vacuuming the air out of the lines.

Shitty gauge picture. I tried to find a oil pressure bleeder, but I don't have a harbour freight close by.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397535470

Pressure stops immediately because liquids don't compress and the oil has a place to go. Glad you saw pressure.

30psi is really good for just the starter. Plug everything back in a start the motor. You're fine.

+1 - fire her up...!

Awesome, thanks guys, I thought it needed to develop +/- 60 PSI.

Wired in my flyback correctly on my Idle Valve wires a la:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397562026

Tested continuity on the EBC, which didn't respond. Stripped back the shrink wrap and found the flyback diode had broken probably due to me tugging on the wiring to route it. So a new diode and we are back in business. I put a couple extra layers of shrink wrap around the soldered area to strengthen it up.

I reinstalled the OEM oil sensor and connected the gauge back up.

Right now I'm trying to figure out why I still can't get the tach to work.

As per Zaphod's completely over the top wiring diagram he made for me, the tach out signal on the DB12 connector, 2B, is being routed to the yellow/blue wire on the igniter, which is the tach signal.

Also I thought I would note that tunerstudio is displaying the RPM's, so ms3x is receiving data.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1395233039

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327066127

hmmm after wiring the diode on both Idle Valve wires instead of just the +12v I get a loud hum from the TB area and no cranking...what did I do wrong here?

humming noise is normal for the idle valve until you adjust the frequency. No idea why it would not crank though..

TPS calibration set in tuner studio?
Also the frequency for the NB idle valve is 511Hz .

Nothing wrong. You definitely need to adjust the iac valve frequency in idle settings... I recently had the same thing last week when I installed my MS for the first time

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...hen-key-78404/

Yeah frequency was set to 511hz, but still no start or even coming close to cranking. I'm still receiving power to MS, but upon listening to the car more closely when attempting to crank, the fuel pump is now turning on upon cranking.

I'm going to go buy some more fuel and see if that has anything to do with it. I only put a gallon or so in so who knows.

Also MAP is reading around 180+ degrees now...what the hell did I just do.

this is me just staring at the screen disapprovingly...

Care to elaborate? I'm guessing I had it right the first time with it only on the +12v?

well, the picture you posted of the diode is a correct way of wiring it.

what's the freq. of your idle valve set to in your msq? it needs to be much higher for an NB valve vs. the 93 of ~200Hz.


I personally would have wired the tachout to 2I which sends it directly to the ignitor, then all you gotta do is connect teh y/b with w/b wire.

Couldn't help notice the clarification of alternate solutions in those two words. What is your preferred method of wiring a flyback into the wiring?

Also I set the frequency to 511.

That makes so much sense on the tach out wiring, jesus why didn't I see that...

I do it inside the case. but same idea: banded end to 12v, non-banded end to the output/signal wire.

I would have done it inside your DIYBOB if anything. would have been much easier than hacking up wiring.

good thing is, it'll take you like what, 2 seconds to move the wire inside your diybob. if that's what you wanna do.