Aerodynamics Splitters, spoilers, and all the aero advice you can handle.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Wing with top down compensation?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-23-2019 | 12:57 PM
  #1  
Halcyon's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 323
Total Cats: 2
From: San Francisco, CA
Default Wing with top down compensation?

https://occamsracers.com/results/ope...-and-fastback/


According to that article, open top is 2.5x less effective.
So can I adjust the angle to get to my desired downforce?
For example, with the gtc200. If I want the downforce created at 0 degrees. With an open top can I pitch it at 12 degrees and get close to the same downforce? I’m assuming drag would be about the same as well?
Old 09-25-2019 | 02:57 AM
  #2  
Savington's Avatar
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,104
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Default

The wing is less effective because the airflow without a top is incredibly dirty. Dirty airflow across a wing will generate lots of drag and very little downforce. Changing the AOA will add even more drag and not much additional downforce.

Get a hardtop.
Old 09-26-2019 | 10:36 PM
  #3  
Occam’s Racer's Avatar
Newb
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 43
Total Cats: 22
From: Ithaca, NY
Default

Originally Posted by Halcyon
https://occamsracers.com/results/ope...-and-fastback/


According to that article, open top is 2.5x less effective.
So can I adjust the angle to get to my desired downforce?
For example, with the gtc200. If I want the downforce created at 0 degrees. With an open top can I pitch it at 12 degrees and get close to the same downforce? I’m assuming drag would be about the same as well?
I didn’t test the GTC wing, but if you look at my article on NACA wings and do some experimenting on the airfoil tools page, you’ll find that virtually no single-element wing works well at 12 degrees. At that angle, most wings will stall, meaning more drag and less downforce.

https://occamsracers.com/2019/05/23/...airfoil-tools/

Savington may have different data, but my testing didn’t show any increase in drag with the wing and open top, despite the turbulence. In fact the wing was .03 Cd across all tops, and I kind of wonder if the wing might have helped clean up the wake because the open top should have had mode drag. In any case, you can play with the NCrit value to simulate turbulence.

It comes down to this: you need clean airflow under the wing.

Last edited by Occam’s Racer; 09-26-2019 at 10:52 PM.
Old 09-27-2019 | 02:08 AM
  #4  
Halcyon's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 323
Total Cats: 2
From: San Francisco, CA
Default

Thanks for the response guys.
I enjoy driving at the track with the top down.
But I guess I’ll drag the hard top along and experiment.
Old 09-27-2019 | 11:57 AM
  #5  
flier129's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,739
Total Cats: 319
From: Statesville, NC
Default

Running the hard-top instead of open-top is 100% the better option. If you didn't have a hard-top then putting the soft-top up would be the way to go.

FWIW 9LR wángs produce the same CFD results in open air as they do on our standard mounts on a NA.

Last edited by flier129; 09-28-2019 at 10:28 AM.
Old 09-27-2019 | 05:27 PM
  #6  
Morello's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 419
Total Cats: 45
From: Orange County, CA
Default

Originally Posted by flier129
Running the hard-top instead of open-top is 100% the better option. If you didn't have a hard-top then putting the soft-top open would be the way to go.

FWIW 9LR wángs produce the same CFD results in open air as they do on our standard mounts on a NA.
I find it hard to believe the soft top open (with a roll bar) is better than soft top up...
Old 09-27-2019 | 05:59 PM
  #7  
Occam’s Racer's Avatar
Newb
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 43
Total Cats: 22
From: Ithaca, NY
Default

Originally Posted by Morello
I find it hard to believe the soft top open (with a roll bar) is better than soft top up...
^ Agree. I'd have to see data to believe otherwise.
Old 09-28-2019 | 10:29 AM
  #8  
flier129's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,739
Total Cats: 319
From: Statesville, NC
Default

putting the soft-top up ***

Typo! Johnny is rubbing off on me.
Old 11-17-2019 | 06:34 PM
  #9  
LuckyKid's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 88
Total Cats: 5
Default

Thanks for posting this. I didn't see that data before. It's helpful to see the data from the fastback. We built ours based off trolling this forum.

Cheers,
LuckyKid
Team PartsBadger
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
BarendB
Race Prep
9
01-11-2018 07:40 PM
ThePass
Aerodynamics
59
12-04-2017 08:34 PM
joeereid
Race Prep
4
01-27-2016 04:17 PM
Buzz
WTB
0
10-01-2013 01:40 PM
ZX-Tex
Race Prep
41
04-13-2012 11:20 AM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 AM.