Energy Suspension bushings @ 949Racing
#21
Red and black material
Ok, final version..
Talked to Brian Littlejohn, the engineer who actually made the kit. The Miata kit is not graphite impregnated. The red and black are the same non-impregnated material. Turns out virtually none of the OE replacement control arm kits for any car are impregnated. I will only stock the black because it's more stealth.
Also Bill durometer specs are what they made. I measured the first set I got in about an hour ago. So no toe control compliance built in to the rear kit.
95 durometer front uppers and sway bar bushings
88 durometer everywhere else
Super Pro 80 durometer
Polybush orange 75
Polybush blue 65
Talked to Brian Littlejohn, the engineer who actually made the kit. The Miata kit is not graphite impregnated. The red and black are the same non-impregnated material. Turns out virtually none of the OE replacement control arm kits for any car are impregnated. I will only stock the black because it's more stealth.
Also Bill durometer specs are what they made. I measured the first set I got in about an hour ago. So no toe control compliance built in to the rear kit.
95 durometer front uppers and sway bar bushings
88 durometer everywhere else
Super Pro 80 durometer
Polybush orange 75
Polybush blue 65
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#24
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is it a huge stretch to make the graphite impregnated variety or did he give any indication of performance differential? I suppose a nice can of molybdenum lube would go a long way to provide a dry film lubrication.
#25
He told me in all honesty that you could assemble the Miata kit bone dry (Don't!) and it would probably last 15 years, just squeaky. The lube provided increases life, reduces friction and keeps them quiet.
Another cool tidbit, the two piece bushing is designed to have a .050" gap when installed. You can add a bit more lube to the opposing faces when installing and have a bit of a reservoir acting directly on the center pin.
One could also careful align a zerk to fill that void. He emphatically recommended against using a powered grease gun, manual only, two pumps max.
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#27
Without the compliance effect, you get no dynamic toe in. That might mean running factory rear toe setting for autocross or track use as opposed to the zero toe I recommend for factory bushings. No exact value, just experiment and see what works for you.
I'm compiling a list for all the durometer values I can find for all the OE and aftermarket kits. If anyone has accurate data to share, please do.
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#28
Checked durometers and they match Bill's original request and Brian's data.
88 Energy Suspension front lower and all rear control arm
95 Energy Suspension front upper, sway bar and differential mount
80 Super Pro control arm, all
65 Polybush blue- soft
75 Polybush orange- sport
? Powerflex
70 Maruha rubber
55-65 Mazda Comp rubber
Safe to say the ES will be the best peformance option. No idea on ride quality yet as I haven't gotten them in a car yet. Planning a test session in about 10 days at Streets of Willow.
Base kit - Control arms only
88 Energy Suspension front lower and all rear control arm
95 Energy Suspension front upper, sway bar and differential mount
80 Super Pro control arm, all
65 Polybush blue- soft
75 Polybush orange- sport
? Powerflex
70 Maruha rubber
55-65 Mazda Comp rubber
Safe to say the ES will be the best peformance option. No idea on ride quality yet as I haven't gotten them in a car yet. Planning a test session in about 10 days at Streets of Willow.
Base kit - Control arms only
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#29
A couple of questions about installing the zerks:
-Did you drill all the way through the bushing? It would seem so, since you'd want the grease to distribute to the inside of the bushing.
-How much does the zerk protrude into the bushing?
-Is there any fear of the zerk fixing the bushing in place.
-Any advantage in using thread in vs press in?
Thanks!
-Did you drill all the way through the bushing? It would seem so, since you'd want the grease to distribute to the inside of the bushing.
-How much does the zerk protrude into the bushing?
-Is there any fear of the zerk fixing the bushing in place.
-Any advantage in using thread in vs press in?
Thanks!
#32
RISE, ZOMBIE THREAD!
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.
I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.
Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:
-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)
-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.
-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.
Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?
Thanks-
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.
I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.
Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:
-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)
-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.
-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.
Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?
Thanks-
#33
RISE, ZOMBIE THREAD!
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.
I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.
Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:
-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)
-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.
-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.
Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?
Thanks-
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.
I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.
Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:
-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)
-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.
-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.
Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?
Thanks-
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